"Unquestionably The Ugliest Vehicle Porsche Has Made!

[bryno]

I think Porsche is just very conservative in its asthetic design philosophy. To me the Panamera is huge and ugly as is the Cayenne, why do they need styling clues from the 911 series in both cars for heavens sake? They were even at it 15 years ago when they took the front end of the 996 and stuck it on a Boxster. From an engineering point of view they have introduced many innovations especially integrating electronics into automotive design however why they persist with the 911 concept and have the engine hanging out the back in this day and age is beyond me.

If they had spent as much time and effort as they have done making the recent iterations of the 911 handle into a modern front/mid engined sports car they would have had a world beater by now and it would be on its third iteration.

Porsche equals engineering innovations and to a large extent engineering excellence but they ain't so good on engineering ( persisting with a flawed concept in the 911) and asthetic ( Panamera & Cayenne) design. Maybe they can learn a few asthetic design tricks from their big brothers at Audi!!

 

[kitchens]

Went along to the Glasgow launch and I have to say IMHO it looks stunning especially the inside cabin area .It looked great in the light ivory leather, the black was to somber The back end let it down a bit .I would never contemplate buying one from new but would happily buy one in 5 years time

 

[daro911]

Panamera Look A Like for a mere 900K

This is the Bugatti Galabier 16C, a concept which heralds the introduction of a new high performance saloon due to go on sale in 2013, commanding a price tag of around £900,000.

Officially the Galabier has been designed to gauge customer reaction to a four door, four seat Bugatti, but insiders are keen to make it once Veyron production ends in 2012.

See the high-res Bugatti Galabier 16C picture gallery

"This is what the Bugatti team wants to do now we have to convince customers and the [VW] group to make it," company boss Franz-Josef Pfeigen told Autocar.

The company is staying tight-lipped about technical details. But technical boss Wolfgang Schreiber admitted that he wanted the production Galabier to "be the world's fastest, highest accelerating and powerful four-door" and hinted that maximum power would end up at around 800bhp.

Bugatti concept plans revealed

The Galabier is four-wheel drive and power comes from the same W16 engine as the Veyron, albeit with twin mechanical superchargers, rather than the four-turbochargers of the mid-engined Sportscar.

And unlike the sportscar the Galabier is thought to have a conventional 8-speed torque convertor automatic transmission, rather than a DSG system.

The doors and wings of the Galabier are made from aluminium, but the rest of the body is constructed from carbon-fibre and Schreiber admitted that the front end of the chassis was also largely made from carbon-fibre to add stiffness and weight.

Insiders won't comment on the target weight of the production car, merely that it is set to be the lightest car in its class.

The styling is said to be influenced by the famous Bugatti Type 57 Atlantique which is why the Galabier is a hatchback, rather than a conventional saloon and has a characteristic spine running down the entire body.

The basic architecture is also said to be inspired by the so called "˜fuselage' styling of the Type 35 and echoed by the Veyron. The four-seat cabin is more luxury oriented than the Veyron and extremely minimalist.

The large wooden dash is dominated by two centrally mounted dials, showing available power and speed, topping out at 390km/h (242mph) on the concept. The clock has been manufactured by Swiss maker Parmigiani and is removes to be fixede on a specially designed wristwatch for customers.

Bugatti's sales director Alastair Stewart told Autocar that the decision to put the Galabier into production would be taken by Spring next year after the concept car has toured the world to be put in front of prospective customers. If it does see the light of day, he expects up to 300 to be made at the company's Molsheim HQ every year.

 

[John Sims]

It is difficult to appreciate what the Panamera will look like "in real lfe". In the rather sterile environment of a Porsche show room, along side a 997 it looks big, very big. What would it look like in a car park - if indeed it would fit in conventional parking bay.

The Panamera's Carrera GT front (another big car) is sure to give it significant presence if it were to arrive in your rear view mirror on a multi lane black top but what will it look like in Haywards Heath or driving down Peartree Lane near Bexhill?

Inside it certainly has a feeling of opulence, although perhaps not that comfortable wing backed leather chair feel you get with a Jag, or a Rolls. It feels more akin to a designer hotel than somewhere you would live by choice. You do feel all the extras should have names like Bijornabub or Benngiflock in accordance with the minimalist Swedish designer feel they seem to portray. None the less it is certainly comfortable and, no mater where the front seat is, you never feel that space has been compromised in the back. If a Jag were a London Gentleman's Club this is a top end, steel and glass executive office in Stockholm.

And the option list is breathtaking. I spent quite a lot of time with the "entry level" £70K car onto which they had loaded a further, buttock clenching, £30K of extras. If you consider "new" second hand cars tend to sell at the value of the base spec, but need the expected whistles and bells to make them desirable, that car would depreciate at a rate liable to induce a nose bleed.

But then we have to accept it is no more designed for the UK market than a Ford Lightening F150 Truck. Like the ridiculous F150, you can have one in the UK but you probably wouldn't.

 

[daro911]

Now we know what a Bugatti saloon could look like. And first impressions are that it could be extremely impressive indeed.

You really need to be in the same room as the Galibier to really get to grips with the scale of the thing. It's a big car. Like a Porsche Panamera, but wider.

The Porsche saloon reference isn't too far away from how the Galibier looks in profile either, but then I suppose there's only so many profiles a five metre hatchback can really have if it must also accommodate two large adults in the back and provide room for their luggage.

But where the Porsche looks a little on the clumsy side, the Bugatti is anything but. This is a strikingly handsome car. It's quite a simple shape really and all the better for it, but the real joy is in its detailing. You doubt whether the Type 57 Atlantique-inspired central spine will make it to the production car, but you'd hope that some of the other details may. These include the beautifully detailed head and taillights and the eight - yes eight - tailpipes.

The inside is even better. Where the Veyron features a mass of chrome ringed dials, switches and other jewellery, the saloon has an impressively minimalist interior. Sitting in any of the four seats feels special and spacious. But then it should. While the saloon is likely to cost less than a Veyron, Bugatti's sales director told me to expect a price tag of around £900k.

As for the way it's going to drive, who knows? We're being told to expect the fastest, most accelerative saloon on the planet and if the Veyron's anything to go by we've got no reason to doubt them. I think that we can expect a slightly softer, more cultured experience than in the sports car though.

And so it was when they briefly started it up for the benefit of us hacks. The supercharged W16 motor sounded quieter, less rasping than the Veyron. But then we're still talking about something that's going to put out at least 800bhp and propel the Galibier to well north of 200mph.

But let's not get too carried away. Bugatti's boss Dr Franz-Josef Paefgen was keen to stress that the concept still has to provide a solid business case before they finally decide whether to make it next spring. That said, you could tell from the glint in his eye that in reality the decision has already been made and it's likely to go on sale in 2013.

Good thing too. It would have been a crying shame if Bugatti's renaissance had begun and ended with the Veyron.

 

[berty987]

Like the cayenne , I think this will find more favour as a used bargain than buying new. Like the cayenne ( also slated for being ugly and not a real porsche) this car drives with a porsche feel rather than as a lumbering ox. I'm no fan of sports saloons (even the RS6 didn' t impress) .Under the skin there is much new technology, the dashboard / cockpit is rumoured to be the template for future versions of the 911 and boxster/ cayman.

 

[robertc@okw.co.uk]

Went to the launch at Bournemouth OPC - expected to hate it, but actually really liked it, especially in dark blue.. It looks so much better in real life, and the interior is a superb place to be.. Would I swap it for a real porsche (911).... No, but if I needed four proper seats I might be tempted.. Has to be in a dark colour tho, bet it looks awful in silver.. []

 

[jdpef356]

I had read a bit prior to launch of the vehicle and a lot of people were putting this car down prior to seeing it in the flesh.
The guy who took the publicity photos did the car no favours[&o] Having seen the car in the flesh It left me thinking did
phtographer work for a competor[]

Anyway, The cars certaily not one for me! Lovely if you have a few bob and a place in the south of France and want to cruise down to your pad in comfort. The thing I was most pleased about was talking to some of the PC staff who service the cars etc. They said that they were glad to see that the engineering side of Porsche was making a return with more light weight materials etc.
Those who have seen it will know how large the car is. The staff told me that the wieght of the Body Shell was the same as that of the Mk 3 Golf.[]

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: jdpef356

Those who have seen it will know how large the car is. The staff told me that the wieght of the Body Shell was the same as that of the Mk 3 Golf.[]

Porsche Panamera Curb Weight 3968lbs
Golf Mk 3 Curb Weight 2544lbs

I think the staff must have been in sales mode ie they would only lie when there lips were moving

I would guess the future coming 998 & 988 will be lighter than a Lotus Evora & Elise in there eyes []

 

[jdpef356]

ORIGINAL: daro911

ORIGINAL: jdpef356

Those who have seen it will know how large the car is. The staff told me that the wieght of the Body Shell was the same as that of the Mk 3 Golf.[]

Porsche Panamera Curb Weight 3968lbs
Golf Mk 3 Curb Weight 2544lbs

I think the staff must have been in sales mode ie they would only lie when there lips were moving

I would guess the future coming 998 & 988 will be lighter than a Lotus Evora & Elise in there eyes []

Robert

I only repeated what they told me - note : I said they were talking SHELL not Curb Weight[]

 

[daro911]

[/quote]

Robert

I only repeated what they told me - note : I said they were talking SHELL not Curb Weight[]
[/quote]

John ...good point well argued .... I retract my doubts .....for now []

 

[jdpef356]

ORIGINAL: daro911

Robert

I only repeated what they told me - note : I said they were talking SHELL not Curb Weight[]
[/quote]

John ...good point well argued .... I retract my doubts .....for now []

Cheers Robert - Mines a pint a Belvoir tomorrow![]

[/quote]

 

[daro911]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHistory/Porsche-Panamera-4.8-V8-Turbo-PDK/243681/ THE FULL MONTY
Verdict

Buying the Panamera is the biggest issue here, because although its running costs are likely to be in keeping with its rivals, it's the price and extent of the Panamera's options list that we suspect will push most examples to well above £100,000. To ask punters to pay for a rear wiper and steering wheel stereo controls at this level is ludicrous


The Panamera is not a perfect fit in the luxury saloon segment. It doesn't do what these cars traditionally do: it can seat only four, it has a hatchback and not a boot, and it forgoes a level of comfort and demands, in turn, a level of commitment to get the best from it. Its drivetrain refinement in traffic, meanwhile, is borderline unacceptable.

The luxury car class, however, is a more interesting segment because of it. At a stroke the Panamera has shown some rival companies that there is more to making a fast luxury car than slapping a big engine into the front of a conventional luxury car.

For us, though, the Panamera just asks a few too many compromises. The PDK transmission hinders getting the best from the chassis, rather than helping, while some of the pricing is plain excessive. In the end, it's more fascinating than fabulous

 

[circleace]

Saw a couple today at Colchester, a Turbo and standard ( if you can call it that! ) and must say it looked lovely! I like big four door cars i.e. CLS, Maserati etc and it looks the bees knees! I understand it is not for the purists but the market is there so Porsche have to follow. I believe it will be a success. The interior is beautifully made and looks stunning....

 

[Peter_Bull]

I took an Panamera 4S version out for a test drive last weekend and I was stunned by its quality and responsiveness. Granted it was a fully loaded version at around £95k but it handled beautifully in all modes, sport and non sport. It rode the potholes road around Bolton with consummate ease and it has so much presence that most people just stood and stared at this fabulous monster! Even other traffic showed respect and it was like a parting of the waves. On the motorway I felt I could have gone on to the South of France and climbed out without any aches or pains, easily better than my last good distance cruiser "" the 944 I had in the "˜90s.
It's a very big car but it handles so easily that it feels like a much smaller car and is an absolute delight for me to drive. I loved how you can see and feel how the body raises and lowers as you set the handling mode at the traffic lights and that did cause a few pedestrian eyebrows to raise!
It was the first time I had driven a PDK Porsche and to say I was impressed is an understatement. No more roaring, hunting and clunking of gear changes here, just a smooth transition of the gears that is barely noticeable to the occupants.
An excellent car, with massive presence. Pity it's so expensive though.

 

[Tony M]

I took a test Drive in the Turbo version and can echo Peter's comments.

The car is large compared to a 911, but since I drive a Cayenne as well as a 911 the size was of no consequence.

The 'Launch Control' caught me unaware, with regard to just how quick it can get away from rest. My head slammed into the head rest and I was amazed how the electronics sorts the 'Grip' out with virtually no tyre squeal ! 10/10 for this feature if you wish to win the 'Traffic Lights' Grand Prix !

The rear Boot space was more than adequate with the cover sheet in place and one can really load a lot of luggage in with the cover retracted.

The Sat Nav is a further improvement on the recent DVD based systems and the Phone will now Connect to both types of protocol with no problems.

The car also gained 'street cred'. I happened to be driving past a Secondary School just as the kids were going home. The number of 'Thumbs Up' signs from the boys was amazing.

Yes I would like one, but in my particular circumstances, I am not quite sure how it would fit in. I could not justify it as a 5th car, so one of the present would need to go.However, I would not be prepared to out one of my present cars to accomodate a Panamerra, so sorry Mr OPC, no Sale (At the moment)

 

[pwebb]

Saw my first Panamera 'on the road' today, in dark blue and a V8 rather than the turbo. It looked remeniscent of the Bentley Conti from some angles, and Lesley thought it looked rather like her KN from the front albeit squashed! It was certainly impressive and I rather like it. It'll probably grow on those who are ambivalent, and won't persuade those who hate it from the word go. Much like the KN then...

Oh and I lost it as it turned into a petrol station, the first of many visits, I suspect.

 

[daro911]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6877864.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

Clarksons Panacea []

And this brings me on to the Porsche Panacea, which sits in the mix like an apple core on a birthday cake. It seems to have no purpose at all.

I understand, of course, why Porsche chose to build a four-door saloon. It's the same reason Lamborghini started work on such a thing, and Aston Martin too. These are small companies and it makes economic sense to squeeze as many models as possible from every component. You have the engine. You have the chassis. And you have a lot of people who won't buy anything you make because they want four doors.

The trouble is, while Lamborghini and Aston Martin clearly employ talented stylists to ensure an elongated, widened four-seat variation on a two-seater theme does not end up looking like a supermodel who's gone to fat, Porsche plainly gave the job to a janitor.

I actually wonder sometimes whether Porsche employs a stylist at all. Plainly, it had some bloke back in the Thirties, when Hitler created the ancestor of the 911, and it had someone else in the Seventies and Eighties, when it was making the wondrous 928 (the 944 wasn't bad either), but today, God knows who's in charge. Someone who, I suspect, has never been to art school.

The original design for the Boxster was exquisite but then someone obviously said: "Instead of making this, why don't we make the actual car we sell look like that pushmi-pullyu thing from Doctor Dolittle?"

Then there's the Gayman, which is simply hideous, and don't even get me started on the Cayenne. No, do get me started. What were they thinking of? I understand the reasoning behind that 911-style nose, but did no one stop and think: "Hang on. Putting a 911's face on the front of a truck is the same as putting Keira Knightley's phizog on the front of Brian Blessed. The end result is going to look absurd"? And it does.

The Cayenne is one of the few cars that look better when a footballer has added 39in wheels, spoilers and wings. Because the bling detracts from the hopeless starting point.

The Panamera, though, is worse. People have tried to be kind, saying that it's challenging and that it's unusual. But the simple fact of the matter is this: it's as ugly as an inside-out monkey. It's dreadful. Part Austin Maxi, it looks like someone with no talent at all was trying to describe what they wanted to a blind person, over the phone.

I tried one on a recent trip to Romania and I thought it was a very good car. But that's like saying Ann Widdecombe has a heart of gold. It's possibly true but it's completely irrelevant. You still wouldn't.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: daro911

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6877864.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

Clarksons Panacea []


I tried one on a recent trip to Romania and I thought it was a very good car. But that's like saying Ann Widdecombe has a heart of gold. It's possibly true but it's completely irrelevant. You still wouldn't.

 

[circleace]

Saw a few more today at East London Porsche and I must say......I love it!!! It is big but its not a 911, boxster or cayman. It is made for a certain customer and I think as I said previous on this thread, Porsche have made it to fit into a certain marketplace. Would I buy it if I wanted that type of 4 door saloon? I have a CLS which is probably one of the first marques to go down the foor door coupe looks, and I love it but, if I had the type of money Porsche want for this, I would opt for either the Maserati or an M5!!!