Upgrading Brakes

[Peter Empson]

I don't really want to add fuel to the fire that is the brake pad debate, but I've tried every EBC brake pad (except for the latest version of greens) and they've all seriously disappointed me. Over hyped and under performing.

 

[ukmastiff]

I'm up for some pads very soon so its interesting, I'm a Porsc newb but am in my mid 40's and have had lots and lots of varied cars. I mention this only because I have used Ferrodo performance road pads on another make of car and for me it was a total mistake. Im sure with all pads , it varies from car to car and they will suit some cars/folk and not others but there seems to be a recurring theme here. Time and time again , experienced Porsche folk ( all different ones) advise folk like me to use OEM pads. Unless I have a VERY good reason not too I am going to heed that advice.

 

[sawood12]

Yep, I realise now that EBC's were not the best pad to go for. However I am saying that for normal street use the OEM pad is the best compromise. Other aftermarket pads might be better, but you'll get more wear of the pad and disk, squealing, compromised cold bite/cold performance, more dust that is often corrosive to wheels and bodywork. At the end of the day is it really worth it when most of these pads are formulated to retain braking performance at higher temperatures - temperatures that can only be achieved from repetitive hard braking from high speeds which just doesn't happen on the street.

If all the downsides are not an issue for you then it appears to me there is only one pad to go for from the various reports of brake pads i've read - Performance Friction. People who use those advocate them with passion - a bit like people who get KW suspension. Other people will advocate the use of other brake pads, but rarely with the conviction of PF users. It seems to me that those pads really must blow the mind of the people who use them. The downside though is corrosive dust and very high disc wear. It is a balancing act, do the upsides outweigh the downsides? I doubt it.

 

[Fat Albert]

Useful thread as my car suffers from bad fade when I am pressing on which surprises me, as it has new calipers and the pedal feels OK, so I am presuming that the previous owner put as much money/thought into the pads as he did the tyres! I will have a look back through the invoices to see what brand of pads & disks he put on last.

I was dead-set on EBC yellows as a mate used them sucessfully in his 968 on road and track, but it seems that this might not be the best solution?

 

[Neil Haughey]

You need proper brake ducting, either the 968 duct kit (which requires a mounting tab on the wishbone) or some turbo cup / early turbo sort of setup. I used to get the same problem on my S2 as when pressing on I am a very heavy braker (hit into the ABS maybe 1/2 the time on track), I found the ducts removed the fading problems.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

If all the downsides are not an issue for you then it appears to me there is only one pad to go for from the various reports of brake pads i've read - Performance Friction. People who use those advocate them with passion - a bit like people who get KW suspension. Other people will advocate the use of other brake pads, but rarely with the conviction of PF users.

I'm not doubting that PF pads are great (there's so much evidence here), but I suspect the main reason they're held in such high esteem on this forum is that people haven't tried other serious pads using similar technologies. I know I keep banging on about them, but I've been using Porterfield pads for well over 10 years (in Lux calipers and 250 Turbo ones) after trying almost everyhting I could get my hands on (Pagids and so on) and think they're everything that's needed in a trackday pad which is suitable for road use - no fade (at all - even after a 50 minute long track session []), progressive, with great feel and they even work well from cold (this is the R-4S version, the R-4 race version is slightly compromised but still useable).

I'm not closed minded and have bought a set of PF's which I'll be trying when my current pads have worn out, as soon as I've tried them on track I'll report back.

The Porterfields seem to be a lot cheaper (when bought from the US) so the PF's will have to address the 'weaknesses' of my existing pads, and the only areas I can imagine being improved would be noise, disc wear and dust, and from what I've read they certainly seem similar.

So in a rather long winded way I suggest that it's not always necessary to follow the herd, there's a real bargain of a pad out there which isn't that well known in the UK. I have bought most of mine from EBS (Engine Builder Supplies) as they're great guys, but there's also loads of sellers on eBay if you want to buy online.

 

[333pg333]

I found EBC Greens and Yellows to be very ordinary. I had used them on road and track for sometime when I originally bought my car. I just thought that was how my car braked. Then I tried some PFC brakes and was amazed at the difference. Not necessarily suited to street only cars, but the point being is that there are some major differences to be had if you look around. I would think a pad with more bite might suit you as you are used to a more rapid feedback setup. As others have mentioned, some of these older P cars have long pedal travel so maybe some Pagids or something else perhaps?

 

[944 man]

'Porterfield pads' Pete? Can you enlighten me?

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Simon, this website is probably the best about their products, as you will see they do several grades and I find the R-4S pad is ideal. JZ Machtech put me onto them years ago when I was dissatisfied with everything else we'd tried as they'd be using them on various race cars. I've not been able to find anywhere in the UK that sells them for a fair price (forget charging $=£, try trippling the price instead...), but there are plenty of US vendors and EBS can do really cheap shipping if you're not in a rush, I try to buy in bulk from them as the savings are worthwhile.

I think the part numbers of the ones I use are:

For the front 250T calipers use AP372
For the rear 250T calipers use AP345

For the front of 944S/Lux use AP251
For the rear of 944S/Lux use AP252

A quick look on ebay will show you how cheaply they can be bought (£50-£80 plus carriage and vat), please do not be put off by the low price!

For anyone tempted to give them a go on the cheap I'd just start with doing the fronts, the extra work load on them will not overheat them, it will change the brake balance slightly of course but there's not much going through the rears on a standard setup anyway, I have done many trackdays and road miles like this over the years and find it to be no problem at all.