Vitesse MAF piggyback tuning help

[PSH]

Hi Guy's

Since my last two dyno runs have been pretty poor and I don't currently have the cash to be able to get the car remapped on a dyno( well that's what SWMBO tells me..[]) I thought now would be a good time to at least get a basic understanding of what the Vitesse software is telling me.
If I can understand the figures then I have a better chance of some road testing with the laptop, to be honest this is something that I've been meaning to do for a long time but didn't want to upset Wayne's good work, since that work is now wasted due to changes on the car I think I'll see what I can do to improve it. I think the biggest issue with my car ( other than the intake temp) is the renewal of all sensors that was done after Wayne had it. Since then it has had a complete engine loom built using lindsey components, plus all sensors and a new TPS, when it was originally set up by wayne the TPS was failing and only worked by using a cable tie to pull it closer to the throttle housing.
Another interesting thing I noticed last night when checking old dyno sheets is the intake temp... now yesterday mine was showing 44 which steve said is very high and probably costing me perhaps as much as 25% power if it had been reading say around 30. Ok so I check the dyno results from Silverstone 2007 where the car made 368bhp and notice the IT says 18 and I'm thinking wow, that's a massive difference. Was it just a very cold day or do I have a problem with my temp sensors? so I checked back to 2005 when the car had far less mods and a bhp reading of 280 to discover the IT was only 15 and this was in mid summer? all these dyno's were dynomatics and the results in 2005/07 where before the loom was done and using the old sensors.
So a picture is beginning to form here...putting aside the fueling issue which yes will cost me some power ( which i hope to address with a little help here[]) it seems my biggest problem is the IT, so is my engine running hotter? not according to the temp gauge it isn't , has my filter position changed?.. well no.. it's been off a few times of course but other than perhaps a few degrees out in refitting it's in the same place as before, or do I have a problem with my temp sensor?
Seems I have some detective work to do....lol.. anyway does anyone out there ( Paul/Tony perhaps) know of a webpage that gives info on how to understand the vitesse charts and tune accordingly or can anyone advise me if they understand them themselves...[]

Needless to say now that's I've indentified the problem( I hope) I now have a chance to fix it.

Thanks for reading


Pete

 

[Diver944]

Hi Peter.

I wasn't paying attention fully but how were they measuring the intake temperature, was it a probe right by the air filter? I know when they did my S2 there was a probe by the oval intake above the number plate (which is where the S2 air filter is) and mine was 22C yestrday. I've checked all previous Dyno sheets for my Turbo and they range from 17 degrees up to 25 degress but nowhere near 44! Could it be excessive heatsoak in your engine bay from the standardish intercooler at your high level of boost?

I can help you with the Piggyback tuning sometime as I used it extensively when setting up mine. You don't have to discard Waynes map, you can simply save it as file and then reload it at any time after you've finished playing. John at Vitesse gave me plenty of assistance as we sent logs back and forth across the ether but basically he told me to aim for an AFR of 12.5:1 up to a boost level of 7psi to help with spoolup and after that aim for 11.8:1 for maximum safe power. I erred on the side of caution and went for slightly richer at 11.5:1 the black line in this chart:

Here is a bit closer detail from my own wideband log:

It shows just how easy it is to get an almost perfect dead flat fuel curve

 

[MarkK]

You big show off![]

 

[PSH]

that's great Paul.. thanks.. yes 44 was very high and only after talking with my son this morning did I realise that my bonnet had been closed and that the probe had been stuffed under the closed bonnet..( see my other thread created today)
so hence a very big reason why the figure was so low[][]

Perhaps if you get some free time Paul would you send me any help and advice you can give regarding using the piggyback,the graph info here is great.. ( 1 pic is worth a 1000 words comes to mind[]) I'm the type of person who doesn't like doing things blind and need to understand in my own mind how each action i take will effect the map and thus the cars performance and safety.

Many thanks

Pete

PS e:mail is pseymourhowell@yahoo.co.uk

 

[944Turbo]

I am not sure they measured the intake temps at weltmeister, Rick might know, if they did it might not have been in the same place.
Tony

 

[944Turbo]

Have you got your wideband hooked up to your piggy back Pete?

 

[PSH]

Have you got your wideband hooked up to your piggy back Pete?

i would assume so, need to check with son... certainly nothing has changed in the piggyback wiring since the 368 run's?

why, what are you thinking Tony?

 

[944Turbo]

Its a lot easier to map from the vitesse if it is, and it wasnt covered in the original instructions - well it sort of is as it tells you where to connect a narrowband but, dependant on the wideband output you are using this might not be much use, there is some fiddling to do. I have an email from John at vittesse with the instructions somwhere.
Tony

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: PSH

i would assume so, need to check with son...

I know my wideband isn't hooked up to the Piggyback and like Tony said the instruction book only covers a narrow band input. I did all my logging on the wideband and then worked out which cells to adjust on the Piggyback, it would have been much simpler if they were linked like Tonys

 

[944Turbo]

Not sure mine is set up quite right yet, need to get back and look at the logs.

here are the instructions from John - the two wires suggested were grounded in the original install. I have some more info on what I did with the piggyback settings but not here and it is innovate specific.

You can log the Innovate wideband 0-5V signal on either (or both) the engine
Temp and/or Amp input lines (line # and color are described in the PB
manual).
Decide which AFR you want to log (ex. 11:1 to 16:1 AFR), figure out the
corresponding voltage for each AFR (should find this info from your wideband
provider or documents).
Now go the the PB software, "Sensor Calibration" tab. Enter the values and
you are done.
So there are 2 steps:
- Physical connection
- Software configuration.

For boost 1-7psi you want 12-12.5 AFR. 7+psi, 11.5-11.8 You can log the Innovate wideband 0-5V signal on either (or both) the engine
Temp and/or Amp input lines (line # and color are described in the PB
manual).
Decide which AFR you want to log (ex. 11:1 to 16:1 AFR), figure out the
corresponding voltage for each AFR (should find this info from your wideband
provider or documents).
Now go the the PB software, "Sensor Calibration" tab. Enter the values and
you are done.
So there are 2 steps:
- Physical connection
- Software configuration.

For boost 1-7psi you want 12-12.5 AFR. 7+psi, 11.5-11.8 AFR

 

[PSH]

Thanks for the info Tony/Paul... much appreciated guy's....[][]



Pete

 

[TTM]

How rich do you all get when lightly lifting off the throttle?

 

[PSH]

Should go lean when lifting off throttle Thom...[]


Pete

 

[944Turbo]

goes rich first then lean (flames ) - not sure yet,
Tony

 

[Diver944]

Mine tends to go full lean then return to around 14:1

 

[Eric_Oz_S2]

Does the Vitesse allow you to monitor the knock sensor? The S2 has 2 - has it got 2 channels for knock?

Only asking because I am planning on supercharging my S2 and need to monitor knock to set timing.

 

[944Turbo]

Seen this http://www.viatrack.ca/

John @ vitesse was working on getting the knock data from the ecu a few years back, not sure how far it went, drop him a mail.

I think the raw data would be too low voltage to log, However with the knocksense I think it should be possible, but John had a good reason for using the ecu data.
Tony

 

[TTM]

I use a KnockView from SciVision to monitor knock. It's linked to the KLR with 3 wires soldered to the right wires of the plug.

 

[PSH]

I use a KnockView from SciVision to monitor knock.

Hi Thom

Do you have a link to this, can't seem to find it with google

Thanks


Pete

 

[marcoturbo]

http://www.dmeshop24.de/product_info.php?info=p60_KnockView---Klopferkennung.html&XTCsid=1f4e03d1e72ba71269e9510b3617aa6c