Want some FUN?

[dereksharpuk]

Today I had the opportunity to extensively try four fresh air cars, all about the same price as my C2 PDK Cab. Three softtops, all clutchless manual, one manual + sunroof. They were: Ferrari 360 F1 Spider, Ferrari 430 F1 Spider, my own PDK C2 Cab and a Gen 2 C4S Targa manual. Anyone want to know which one won?

 

[Rodney Naghar]

430 Spider, but I'm sure you'll say your own car! []

 

[Mark_Bennett]

The Morgan you took for a blast afterwards?

 

[dereksharpuk]

Actually, both Mark and Rodney are wrong. Remember the title 'FUN'. Which was the most involving? Well not the Morgan, that was got rid off in disgust as it was a badly made kit car! It obviously was not the F430 Spider; it actually sounded rather good, but not as good as the 360. Strangely enough, neither was the F1 gearchange as smooth despite being a later generation! It also was some £23K more than the 360 and the most expensive of the four at £98K. That just leave three!

 

[Jimberland]

Interested to hear but i feel it was a bit of a no contest.
There is a Porsche member who posts on here who traded a 997 GT2 for a Ferrari 430 Scuderia F1.
Enough said in my book.
I know this is a different price league but in all honesty I think it proves a very valid point.
A second hand Ferrari may be comparable in price but IMHO not comparable in performance (not just speed).

 

[nigelpugh]

Derek,

I know the answer to this, because it was how I selected my car against all the cars you mention, and including the Morgan Aero 8 which I had for a day, and also had a deposit on too.

So its the Targa, IE my car, the best GT and fun car you can own!!

Period...

Nige.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

I'd be very interested to know why you thought the 360 was less fun than the 430? I thought the 430 was leagues ahead? I've heard people say the 355 is even better than the 360.
I think they made the 430 gearchange jerky because that's how their customers like them - it feels more 'sporty' as opposed to PDK which is 'smooth'.

 

[Jimberland]

Nige & Derek,

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing on the equivalent Ferrari forum (if there is such a thing) had you opted to purchase a Ferrari.
Only it seems strange to me that a Lambo Gallardo wasn't thrown in to the mix if we aren't concerned with price??
No offense but it seems like a pretty pointless post to me but will no doubt raise some interesting debate.

P.S Ignore me. Hope you both enjoy your new toys. The PDK's are great cars. I'm just a disgruntled Porsche owner who is about to banned for speeding and wishes that he had bought a Ferrari 430 or Lambo Gallardo when faced with current depreciation values.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: Jimberland

Nige & Derek,

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing on the equivalent Ferrari forum (if there is such a thing) had you opted to purchase a Ferrari.
Only it seems strange to me that a Lambo Gallardo wasn't thrown in to the mix if we aren't concerned with price??
No offense but it seems like a pretty pointless post to me but will no doubt raise some interesting debate.

P.S Ignore me. Hope you both enjoy your new toys. The PDK's are great cars. I'm just a disgruntled Porsche owner who is about to banned for speeding and wishes that he had bought a Ferrari 430 or Lambo Gallardo when faced with current depreciation values.

5k clutch changes on the G every few thousand miles? Not that much to be depressed about surely?

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: nigelpugh

Derek,

So its the Targa, IE my car, the best GT and fun car you can own!!

Period...

Nige.

Of course we all have different ideas. If we did not, we would all drive Minis. Anyway, I change my mind when the wind changes direction [] However, today it was definately NOT the Targa. Had one. big mistake. Moreover, a C4S Targa is even worse. No boot, difficult to heave stuff over the engine to put it in the back, noisy, heavy, oversteers, thirsty, rear view with roof open = nil. Need I go on? Sorry Nige

So that leaves the 360 and the C2 PDK Cab []

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

I'd be very interested to know why you thought the 360 was less fun than the 430?

Rodney, that was not what I said. The 360 was MORE fun than the 430

 

[adrian996]

Tried the new 997 second generation 3.6 with PDK recently. When I floored it, the front end went so light I instinctively lifted off the gas! The PDK 'box: in a word, dreadful. I felt totally disconnected from the vehicle and not 'involved' with what it was doing at all. Why anyone would buy a 911 with this in it is frankly beyond me! (Just watch the used prices plummet!!).

Surely, if you're going to buy the ultimate sports car you ensure that it has the two essential items: rear wheel drive (NOT FOUR [:-] ) and that it has a manual gear box. An automatic 911...? That's a contradiction of terms isn't it? (The question mark is for punctuation - I'm not looking for an answer!) Someone told me recently that the more modern 911s have become more like a business man's daily commuter with all the Sat Nav and God knows what else. A little harsh maybe but I can see what he means - but an automatic 911. Sorry, no. Just no.

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: Jimberland

Nige & Derek,

No offense but it seems like a pretty pointless post to me but will no doubt raise some interesting debate.

No offence taken. Yes, perhaps pointless because the views are so subjective. They are, after all, merely opinions.

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: adrian996

Tried the new 997 second generation 3.6 with PDK recently. When I floored it, the front end went so light I instinctively lifted off the gas! The PDK 'box: in a word, dreadful. I felt totally disconnected from the vehicle and not 'involved' with what it was doing at all. Why anyone would buy a 911 with this in it is frankly beyond me! (Just watch the used prices plummet!!).

Ooooooo, you are winding me up []. I just love PDK. It is everything for everyone (well apart from Adrian). The more you use it, the more you love it. It is so involving. Anyway, to be pedantic, it is not really an automatic, more a clutchless manual. In 10 years from now having to press a clutch pedal will be a thing of the past. The car knows that when you move the gear lever the clutch needs to be operated. However, I suppose some of us still would like manual ignition advance and retart to be on the steering colum instead of being automatic []

 

[pwebb]

ORIGINAL: adrian996

An automatic 911...? That's a contradiction of terms isn't it? (The question mark is for punctuation - I'm not looking for an answer!)

sorry you didn't like the pdk, but it isn't an automatic - no torque converter, as you no doubt know. Personally, having driven other 'flappy paddle' boxes from Ferrari, Aston and Audi recently, there's no doubt in my mind that the pdk is a better box (or should that be boxes?). Haven't run mine fully in yet, so no launch control attempts yet, but haven't noticed any front end lightness as you describe. Will be keeping a close eye on that tomorrow...

Derek, agree that the 360 is an awesome piece of kit, and spent a happy week hooning around Le Mans with a mate in one a few years ago. The F1 box was pretty brutal but huge fun, but servicing costs were crippling (clutch at 3k etc).

 

[adrian996]

Is the answer to this going to be the 911 PDK - because I've got a sneaking suspicion that, considering the author seems to own one (poor lamb), that it's a bit of a one horse race. Or am I missing something? Go on, tell me I am!

Can you say the answer now please as I want to turn in soon.

Peter. Don't apologise for the PDK - unless you came up with the idea of putting an automatic gearbox into a 911 - in which case, GET ON YOUR KNEES MAN!!![] (Someone mentioned that it's a £1200 option! Is this right..?! Can't be, surely...?!)

 

[Dylan1]

and the answer is...........a 997 C2 PDK[]

or is there a twist in the tail derek??[]
glad you like the brake squealing droptop,I think the pdk is brilliant,just cant decide which car to have it in!!!C2 C2s or cayman s....choices choices!
(there will always be those who dislike progress,always has been always will be,....flippin syncromesh nonsense,will never catch on-cant beat a nice spot of doubledeclutching....blah...).

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: dereksharpuk

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

I'd be very interested to know why you thought the 360 was less fun than the 430?

Rodney, that was not what I said. The 360 was MORE fun than the 430

Sorry, I meant why did you find the 430 less fun than the 360 as the 430 is supposed to be leagues better and even the 355 is supposed to be a close contender to the 360?

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: adrian996

Tried the new 997 second generation 3.6 with PDK recently. When I floored it, the front end went so light I instinctively lifted off the gas! The PDK 'box: in a word, dreadful. I felt totally disconnected from the vehicle and not 'involved' with what it was doing at all. Why anyone would buy a 911 with this in it is frankly beyond me! (Just watch the used prices plummet!!).

Surely, if you're going to buy the ultimate sports car you ensure that it has the two essential items: rear wheel drive (NOT FOUR [:-] ) and that it has a manual gear box. An automatic 911...? That's a contradiction of terms isn't it? (The question mark is for punctuation - I'm not looking for an answer!) Someone told me recently that the more modern 911s have become more like a business man's daily commuter with all the Sat Nav and God knows what else. A little harsh maybe but I can see what he means - but an automatic 911. Sorry, no. Just no.

So Adrian ;
You don't like the PDK
911 should be rear wheel drive only
never an automatic
don't like sat nav....

I suppose you'll be saying they should only be aircooled next []

garyw

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: adrian996

Is the answer to this going to be the 911 PDK - because I've got a sneaking suspicion that, considering the author seems to own one (poor lamb), that it's a bit of a one horse race. Or am I missing something? Go on, tell me I am!

Can you say the answer now please as I want to turn in soon.

Sorry Adrian that I did not post the answer in time for your snooze, But after all is merely only my opinion.

The most involving to drive and the most FUN by far was the F1 360 Spider. OK, so the servicing costs are higher (but offset by less depreciation). But it drives so much better than my PDK Porsche and looks and sounds fab. Nevertheless, will I buy one? Well you have to read my article in Porsche Post, 'An Italian Mistress' (April 2005) to understand why the Carrera is the better all round car. If I merely wanted the Ferrari for FUN it would be the first choice. But I have to pay for servicing and drive it long distances. The Porsche is more refined, more modern, more comfortable, more economic and yes, quicker, though it does not seem so.

Bottom line Ferrari 360 F1 Spider buy with your heart: it is your mistress. Porsche PDK C2 Cab buy with your head; it is your wife.

But there is always the Ferrari California Is that not wife, mistress, girl friend, sister and mother all in one???? []