water coming into the cabin

[elliotw]

Hi Guys

I noticed that the windscreen of my 987 has been steaming up again and that the driver's side matts - both in front of and behind the driver's seat - are waterlogged (to the extent I could feel it in my shoes!). I have had dampness, at least with the matts behind the driver's and passenger's seat, before.

I have made a quick visual inspection of each of the two rear and two front drains (well, only the front drain to the left of the battery as I can't seem to properly see the front drain to the right of the battery). None of the drains seem to be blocked, so I am slightly perplexed as to what is causing the problem.

I'm going to do what is now my THIRD dehumidification of the car to try and remove the wetness.

Any suggestions or tips as to why this is happening? Slightly concerned given the heavy rainfall and the likelihood for further rainfall.

Thanks.

 

[Sylvian]

If I was you I'd get the car to an OPC.

 

[Geoff_Fields]

It's propably the door membrane, not an uncommon fault I understand.

 

[elliotw]

Thanks. Will check the door seals.

The other thing I noticed is that the water coolant tank is almost empty. I know it was already topped up a couple of months ago, so I must have a leak in the car.

The question is, is this coincidental (and the leak from the water coolant system is just leaking onto the ground) or could it be that some part of the water coolant system is leaking into the cabin? Are there radiators etc in the cabin which could cause this?

Thanks!

 

[Buddy]

Sounds like a leaking heater matrix which would explain the wetness in the cabin and the low water level![&o]

You'll need to get the heater matrix stripped out but daunting as this may sound it comes out through the top of the unit and does not necessitate the removal of the heater unit. But the plastic trims in front/below the screen need removing for access.

To take a quick look at where I mean; if you open the front hood and remove the battery cover at the rear below the trim you will see two pipes with hoses connected and below them a large sealing cover. The matrix is below that and the pipes are part of it.[]

 

[elliotw]

Guys

Thanks for all your help.

Here's what has been done:
- Drain pipes - all four checked and NO blockage.
- Done a check for water coolant leak - it isn't that as there is no smell from the tank and this is not going down anymore.
- Have spent about £500 having both door membranes being replaced. I was told this would definitively fix the water leak problem. After these were replaced, I was shown the previous membranes and told they had deteriorated materially.

HOWEVER, after recent downpours, I am still having water problems behind the driver's seat. So, despite it not being the drain pipes, a leak in the water coolant system or from the door membrane, I am at a total loss as to what the cause is.

Where can the water be leaking from?

Please help!

Thanks

Elliot

 

[jdpef356]

ORIGINAL: elliotw

Guys

Thanks for all your help.

Here's what has been done:
- Drain pipes - all four checked and NO blockage.
- Done a check for water coolant leak - it isn't that as there is no smell from the tank and this is not going down anymore.
- Have spent about £500 having both door membranes being replaced. I was told this would definitively fix the water leak problem. After these were replaced, I was shown the previous membranes and told they had deteriorated materially.

HOWEVER, after recent downpours, I am still having water problems behind the driver's seat. So, despite it not being the drain pipes, a leak in the water coolant system or from the door membrane, I am at a total loss as to what the cause is.

Where can the water be leaking from?

Please help!

Thanks

Elliot

Have you put the Hood up? [][][][][]




















Sorry could not resist that one - hope you get a fix soon!

 

[Glyn]

Time to investigate further, though i agree with a previous comment regarding the Matrix. Take the seats out and remove the carpets, dry everything then with you inside the car get someone to shower the car with a hose pipe, yes it will be tedious but this should identify your ingress of water.

Surprised you didnt do the door membranes yourself or at least check them out before having them replaced as they would need to have been torn to allow sufficient water into the cabin to wet the carpets to the point of being sqidgy under foot.
Dont understand why water level fell after topping up but has stopped now - things like this dont fix themselves.

If you take the car to a garage to investigate the water ingress you do realise you are virtually giving them a blank cheque as this process could take hours to find so use someone you can trust.
I know this may sound obvious but when you checked the drain pipes and you reported them clear i assume the method to confirm they are clear was not just blowing compressed air through them.
You may also need to have a look at the condition of the drain pipes - they may be clear but if damaged or split then water will find its way in.
The pipes need to be fitted in the right position too, the pipes should protrude just underneath the floor of the car to ensure the water runs away, if the pipes have moved (raised) and the ends are inside the floor pan then drained water will simply fill the cabin.
Take a look at this, the method i use to ensure they are clear and fitted correctly is to use a length of net curtain cable - the springy plastic covered stuff - this is flexible, strong and will push all the way through - and clear any blockages, you will also see it below the car when pushed through

 

[elliotw]

Thanks very much for that.

I have been in touch with the garage and they have asked me to bring the car in again. I will do that for now - although I will ask that there should be no charge given they commenced work on the basis that this would be a total fix.

 

[Motorhead]

Elliot,

Are you able to ascertain whether or not the water is pure or has anti-freeze present?

I'd definitely get the garage to do a pressure check on the coolant system while they have it in the workshop to check for leaks.

Jeff

 

[BartyB]

Elliot, you say that the drains are clear, but check the membrane under the clam-shell very carefully for any splits or perforations as these will cause water to seep into the interior. I had to repair a split in this where a broken hood cable had punctured a tiny hole in it. There is another possibility that the door mirror seal is faulty and water is leaking into the cabin this way. In this case the carpets at the base of the door will be noticeably wet.

I identified leaking door membranes by covering the whole hood and windscreen with a plastic cover. With the cover when it rained there was no penetration. Without the cover when it rained it poured in. You could use this method to determine if the water is leaking in from outside or from the heather matrix. Placing dry newspapers at strategic points inside might help you locate the source.

One further point, if the carpet under the passenger seat is damp, be aware that the control unit - for the immobiliser and alarm - which lives there, is very vulnerable to moisture. Water ingress in this area shouldn't be ignored as the control unit is a very expensive part to replace and can only by done an OPC so I'm told.

 

[Mulc]

Good day everyone. I too am having similar trouble. Drivers side and the rear boot waterlogged. Any help appreciated.
Malcolm.

 

[Glyn]

ORIGINAL: Mulc

Good day everyone. I too am having similar trouble. Drivers side and the rear boot waterlogged. Any help appreciated.
Malcolm.

Mulc - start a new thread for your issue, though you can get some pointers from this thread. Each case is different to another and dont forget to say which model you have and all the detail you can like when it started, did it start after having some work done etc.

Tagging a new issue onto another thread is not a good thing as the tagged on part is likely to get missed

 

[elliotw]

You won't believe this.....

As I mentioned earlier, I returned my car to the garage that did the initial replacement of the door seals which they said, after investigation, would fix the leak. The garage is not an OPC, but a specialist (and exclusively) Porsche garage. The previous work had cost me £440 and here is what happened when I went to take the car back:
- I filled the car up with a full tank of petrol on the evening of Friday 7 December. I reset the mileage counter as I often do when I fill up the tank.
- I took the car in to the garage on the morning of Saturday 8 December. There was a full tank of petrol as I had only driven about 9 miles since the fillup the previous day. The mileage counter proves this. I took a photo of the mileage counter with my iPhone (the reason being was I had a nagging feeling there was mileage added to my car the last time I took it to that garage to have the leak fixed, but I couldn't verify for sure and thought maybe I was misremembering - I was doing this for peace of mind!). Mileage when I left the car at the garage was 31,183 miles.
- The garage said they would call me on Monday or Tuesday night...they didn't. I called on Tuesday to get an update and was told they would let me know in the next day as they were still investigating.
- While I wanted to collect the car on Thursday morning, I hadn't heard back positively so did not collect until Saturday.
- On Saturday 15 December I collected my car. They explained that there was definitely no leak from either the internal water coolant system or from the rain. They said that the water in the cabin had just "unsoaked" itself as a result of me using the car heating. Total garbage considering I had left to go on holiday for 2 weeks, it was dry when I left and when I returned - and it had not been used in the 2 week period but it had rained lots - the cabin was wet. So the car leak had not been fixed at all but I just bought their excuse.
- Here's what made me go mad. I checked the mileage counter and the petrol tank - it showed 31,288 miles and half a tank of petrol. So they had used my car without my consent to rack up 105 miles! What's more, they had reset the mileage counter to make it look like I had only still driven 7 miles from the fillup I did on Friday.

I explained to the garage that I had taken photos of the mileage counter before and after giving the car to them and asked what my car had been used for. They told me there was a secure parking facility 2 miles away which is often used as an overflow parking area. That does not explain 105 miles! What's more, it looks like they reset the mileage counter to an equivalent mileage to deceive me. They asked what they could do to resolve the matter, but to be honest, after such a breach of trust, I said there wasn't much they could do.

Later that day I telephoned the garage to demand a full refund of the £440, plus the petrol used by them. The chap who was apparently responsible for my car was to call me back later that day. Let's be clear, what they did probably constitutes theft.

The chap who had apparently driven the car called me and said that it was because of an insurance issue he had to take the car back to his home where he has adequate coverage - because they were busy with lots of cars the insurance coverage did not cover my car being at the garage. He said his house is 26 miles away. Also, he explained he had to do a little drive up the M1 to "warm" the car up. My blood pressure levels were getting higher at this point - clearly he was talking BS. I certainly don't like the idea that someone else had driven my car, probably recklessly, without my consent. He stated there was nothing untoward and that there mistake was not to ask my consent before and that they forgot to top up the petrol, which they normally do. Funny that. Also, no customer had ever made an issue about this before. Oh, and I asked about the mileage counter being reset which looked like a deliberate attempt to deceive me. Apparently the counter gets reset when the battery is removed, so, according to them, was not a deliberate attempt by them to reset the mileage counter. So, just a coincidence then? I THINK NOT!

Thoughts?

 

[Motorhead]

Sorry to hear about that Elliot, especially after all your water leak problems.

Can I suggest that you might be better posting this on a more general section like the General Porsche Discussion Area where someone with legal training might be able to offer some useful advice.

Jeff

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Jokers.

If I were you I'd get a rev range readout done ASAP. Then you can see if they bounced your engine off or beyond the limiter during their jolly. Why they would need to disconnect your battery I have no idea. If that was the case everything else would be reset. Has it been?

Stand your ground and repeat your initial request.

I honestly cannot fathom how a business can think it's ok to do such a thing to a customer.

 

[elliotw]

Agreed - thanks for your posts.

Yes, I was absolutely FUMING. What's more, I am pretty sure they racked up mileage last time.

They offered me £250 compensation....

How do I get a rev range readout done? Do I need to go to an OPC dealership/will it cost more money?

 

[elliotw]

What else would be reset when a battery is removed? Everything else seems like normal...

 

[Motorhead]

I don't know where you're located Elliot but if you can find someone local to you on this forum who has a Durametric diagnostic tester, it can be used to check for engine over-ranges and when they occurred. Ranges 1 and 2 are OK but it starts getting problematic if you've got 3+, although in fairness you're unlikely to see this unless the engine has been over-revved on a missed down-change, eg 6th to 1st..! Unlikely unless it's been on track.

Personally, I wouldn't accept any financial compensation from them at the moment and put everything in writing too in your dealings with them.

Jeff

Edit: It's possible that the DME has reset itself but if the car drives OK, nothing to worry about. Check that the windows, door locks and alarm/immobiliser are functioning correctly. These are things that any competent Porsche specialist will have handled.

 

[Buddy]

This sounds to be a nightmare within a nightmare!

Firstly they charged an extortionate amount for changing membranes and door seals then compound everything by failing to fix the fault and abuse your car plus they are supposed to be Porsche Specialists!

At such a time it's a pity about the naming and shaming rules.

I agree with Jeff, check for over revs, everything to be in writing and take legal advice.