Where did they build them?

[Mark_Bennett]

ORIGINAL: wolfie308

Has anybody else ever noticed that on the back of the rear light cluster it's stamped VW with the 4 Audi rings........odd for a part that was only fitted to a Porsche ? [].......... puts on quilted jacket and bobble hat and leaves quietly []

Who was the 924 designed for again?

 

[Copperman05]

Quite, and I would hazard a guess that as they were designed for VW/Audi in the first place then the 944 was probably always intended to be built at the Audi factory in Neckarsulm, so would make sense that Porsche, without the capacity to build them in house continued with the VW plan and have them built in Neckarsulm. That of course is pure speculation and is in no way based at all on fact...[]

Edd

 

[graham.webb]

I hadn't thought to make the link to the current situation, but now you come to mention it, if you were in the market for a Boxster/Cayman which would be better...a Valmet or Zuffenhausen car?

Not entirely irrelevant...if I were ever to replace my S2 (unlikely) it would probably be a Cayman for me, as the nearest current equivalent. Maybe an older 911.........can't see that a current 911 is that much better to justify the price difference over a Cayman! It would be nice to drive some newer cars and discover the truth??

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Ahhh ... that's what I thought; we're writing an article on behalf of McNulters here, aren't we?

Bit of a cheek, eh? PCGB - the club whereby you can write your own magazine articles which you then pay to read!

[][][]

It's not for me, it's for a forthcoming edition of Classics Monthly. I want to get it right, or there will be letters to the Editor...[]

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

I want to get it right, or there will be letters to the Editor...[]

Oh yes, we will be reading very carefully

 

[Mark_Bennett]

ORIGINAL: graham.webb

I hadn't thought to make the link to the current situation, but now you come to mention it, if you were in the market for a Boxster/Cayman which would be better...a Valmet or Zuffenhausen car?

That question has been asked since they started making the Boxster.
No one has ever been able to say either way. In truth they are the same.

(Mine's a Stuttgart build [])

 

[944 man]

Ive heard that Valmet cars were consistantly the better built...

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
It's not for me, it's for a forthcoming edition of Classics Monthly. I want to get it right, or there will be letters to the Editor...[]

Oh, so you're being PAID for it, and it's not even for the benefit of club members? []

It had better be right then, I understand. I'll edit my earlier post accordingly.


Oli.

 

[geoff Ives]

I am rather late on this thread but here goes, as I recall.

Porsche designed a car for VW. It was to be built in the old NSU factory. As with most VW/Porsche collaberations it was a bit political and one of the aims was to save jobs and keep the NSU factory open.
As a result of the 1973 Oil crissis VW wanted to pull out because they didn't want to be involved with sports car production. We got the Golf instead.

Porsche bought back their design and part of the deal was that to save jobs it would be built at Neckersaulm. The engine were to be built at Wolfsberg VW plant. The car, unlike the VW version wes rear wheel drive. It was callled the 924.

When the turbo version was launched in 1979 the engine block was delivered to Stuttgart and assembled there then deliverd to Neckersaulm where the car was assembled..
Now on to the early 944 ( and 924S) they were assembled at Neckersaum with engines wholly built at Stuttgart. Later 944's were built at Stuttgart.

So (as a wind up) The 944 is the purer Porsche... Not necessarily. The 944 has a Porsche engine but an Audi gearbox whereas the 924 Turbo has a mainly Porsche engine but a wholly Porsche gearbox.[:-][8|][][]

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Oh, so you're being PAID for it, and it's not even for the benefit of club members?

I wish! The chap writing the feature is getting paid, although not a lot as magazines have cut budgets to the absolute bone. [&o]

My car was used for the photos, and to benefit the Club I made sure to wear a Club polo shirt for the "owners" line-up [&:]. And, the fact that we get a plug as one of the only car clubs that have Registers for the different models is a good thing. A lot of people are unaware of the work done behind the scenes by Register Secretaries, such as working with suppliers to ensure continued parts availability.

We also have the Display Register, a central database of cars that owners would be willing to volunteer for photo shoots, exhibitions and shows, event displays etc. That's why people needing a specific model for a magazine article come to us, we can put them in contact with owners local to them with the right model, even the right colour to go with the other cars in the feature. This time I offered mine, as I was free on the day in question and my car was exactly what they wanted, and it adds to the feature that I'm so involved with the model.

Sad, then, that I have to get you lot to do my research.....[][]

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
I wish! The chap writing the feature is getting paid, although not a lot as magazines have cut budgets to the absolute bone. [&o]

My car was used for the photos, and to benefit the Club I made sure to wear a Club polo shirt for the "owners" line-up [&:]. And, the fact that we get a plug as one of the only car clubs that have Registers for the different models is a good thing. A lot of people are unaware of the work done behind the scenes by Register Secretaries, such as working with suppliers to ensure continued parts availability.

We also have the Display Register, a central database of cars that owners would be willing to volunteer for photo shoots, exhibitions and shows, event displays etc. That's why people needing a specific model for a magazine article come to us, we can put them in contact with owners local to them with the right model, even the right colour to go with the other cars in the feature. This time I offered mine, as I was free on the day in question and my car was exactly what they wanted, and it adds to the feature that I'm so involved with the model.

Sad, then, that I have to get you lot to do my research.....[][]

Oh dear. I'm almost starting to feel bad about that edit! [][&:]

Maybe it's not quite 100% true ...


Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Oh dear. I'm almost starting to feel bad about that edit!

Maybe it's not quite 100% true ...

Just read your edit! Have you any idea how tempting it is to forward that to the magazine......[]

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
Just read your edit! Have you any idea how tempting it is to forward that to the magazine......[]

Well if you do then I'll expect to be credited and I'll submit you my invoice ...

Oh, you said. No cash in it. Bu99er. []


Oli.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

OK - 944's up to early Model Year 1991 were all built at Neckarsulm (as was the 924)

In 1991 production was started in Stuttgart (Zuffenhausen) as well as Neckarsulm.

This was Chassis numbers WPOZZZ94ZMN400001 to 2608 for the coupe, and WPOZZZ94ZMN430000 to 1140 for the cabriolet

The Stuttgart cars are Chassis numbers WPOZZZ94ZMS400001 to 0130 for the coupe, and WPOZZZ94ZMS430000 to 0419 for the cabriolet

These are all ROW cars.

The '91 US cars were all built at Neckarsulm

968 starts with Model year 1992 - and Continued in both locations - however not many were built at Neckarsulm ...

Just 6 Coupes and 3 Cabs were built at Neckarsulm (ROW) and 4 Coupes and 2 Cabs (US)
I can't see why they bothered?

All others were made at Stuttgart.

Does that help?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Does that help?

Lol, very comprehensive but it's already gone to press......[&:]

 

[Mark_Bennett]

[&:]

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: wolfie308

Has anybody else ever noticed that on the back of the rear light cluster it's stamped VW with the 4 Audi rings........odd for a part that was only fitted to a Porsche ? [].......... puts on quilted jacket and bobble hat and leaves quietly []

You'll notice that the VW camper van from the late '80's, you know, the boxy one, shares the identical light clusters.

My comments on why should it matter where the cars were assembled were in anticipation of where discussions on this topic usually end up - i.e. implying that 924's and 944's not assembled in Stuttgart are not proper Porsches.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: graham.webb
In fact, it's well known that Porsche had both capacity and quality problems at the time, and the cost of 911 production was disastrously high because of the need for so much of 911 output to go straight from the end of the line and into Rectification...

I almost typed this in my first post but couldn't remember where I got it from, pleased to see I'm not the only one to have heard this.

ORIGINAL: sawood12
You'll notice that the VW camper van from the late '80's, you know, the boxy one, shares the identical light clusters.

The light pattern is the same but it's not the same part. The surface on the VW Camper (T2) units is convex whereas it's as flat as Holland on our cars.
In fact it's also the same pattern on cars such as the Volvo 440 and the ...Citroën BX []

 

[graham.webb]

TTM: Glad you'd heard this too...I'd read it in a book by Womack & Jones about lean manufacturing. They'd introduced Toyota working practices to the US auto industry, then went on as consultants to Porsche to save them the effort of building every car twice before shipping it...

 

[sawood12]

I also remember reading something about the fact the 924 being the first car that Porsche built with a galvanised body (or partially galvanised body). Porsche had no previous experience with this but Audi did, so they consulted with Audi during its development and further development onto a fully galvanised body.

I'm pretty sure the campervan model i'm referring to has identical light clusters than the 924/944. I spent a good 15mins behind one in a traffic jam last year so got a pretty close look at them and I couldn't see any difference. Maybe later models had slight differences to the clusters. The Porsche units do carry a VW part number on both the cluster body and the lenses. Would seem a bit of a pointless task choosing a part out of the VW parts bin then modifying it slighly for no real reason. They may as well have had their own part made from scratch.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/largepic.asp?i=1244540&noPics=3&imgsrv=1&current=1&make=VOLKSWAGEN&model=camper|campervan