Where to get torque tube reconditioned?

[wolfie308]

As mentioned in an earlier thread about vibration, it appears that the torque tube needs refurbishing. My indie has one that could be used(I'd rather not chance just fitting a second hand unit given the labour involved).

That way means minimum time off the road as my S.2 is my only car. Does anyone know of a place that could do this?.... I'm sure it's not a major engineering feat!

 

[Lowtimer]

I am pretty sure Hartech has done them before: probably worth giving them a ring anyway.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

If the rate of failure is so low, and I must admit I've only heard of a couple of torque tubes being replaced in 7 years, would a used one not be a viable option? Plenty around.

 

[chrisg]

Wolfie, I seem to remember (from many years ago ) that Porsche & 911 world covered this and there's a place in Vauxhall South London that specialises in both reconditioning them and providing replacements. As Lowtimer suggested I would ring Hartech or even Promax, Jon Mitchell in Poole etc for details.

I'll have a quick look in the downstairs loo through old copies of P & 911 and if I find the number will email you,

Chris

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

If the rate of failure is so low, and I must admit I've only heard of a couple of torque tubes being replaced in 7 years, would a used one not be a viable option? Plenty around.

I think its the bearings in them that go, a s/h one may be a false economy if your paying the labour to remove it its probably worth doing properly, last time I heard the refurbed unit was about £220 + postage.

Edd

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I think its the bearings in them that go, a s/h one may be a false economy if your paying the labour to remove it its probably worth doing properly, last time I heard the refurbed unit was about £220 + postage.

If it's only a couple of hundred then yes, a rebuilt one is a better bet than a used, and possibly unknown, option.

As people know by now, I'm not a fan of used parts in the main. With labour, vat and the hassle of dropping the car off nearly an hour away, then going back to collect it, fitting used parts that might be about to fail is a stupid false economy for me. Sometimes, as with my recent new indicator stalk, it's the only economic option, but to me things like the clock, that fail due to age rather than care or mileage, are not worth the price charged for used items that aren't going to last the 20-plus years that a new one will.

My only point with the TT was that, as this is the first one on the forum for years needing doing, S/H ones might be perfectly good and you'd be very unlucky to get a bad one. For that price, though, I'd not even consider it over a refurbed one.

 

[Elliot]

If you want to get one refurbed i suggest buying a cheap used one and getting that refurbed instead of taking your car of the road in the process.

I know someone that has about 15 in his workshop if you need one.

 

[wolfie308]

Thanks for all the input guys....spoke to Hartech who gave me the name RGA, the place in London that Chris was trying to think of. Ollie at RPM Tecknik very kindly offered to send a unit he's had on the shelf off a scrapper at no cost - just the return carriage to RGA. Many thanks Ollie, top man! Cost of refurb for reference, £275 + VAT.

Although this hasn't been a widely raised issue to date, I would expect to see more and more in the not too distant future, especially on cars 20-30 years old with 150k mile averages. For me, fitting an unknown secondhand unit without refurbishment just wasn't an option - in fact, I'm surprised you even mentioned it Mc Nulters [8|] []

Since it's 90k and 14 years since the clutch was changed, I'm seriously considering biting the bullet and getting that done at the same time. On that score, a search round of all the usual suspects showed prices for a SACHS kit from Frazerpart at £489 inc delivery, to ECP showing a screen price of 690 delivered. That's a shocking difference in price for exactly the same item is it not? [:-]

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Although this hasn't been a widely raised issue to date, I would expect to see more and more in the not too distant future, especially on cars 20-30 years old with 150k mile averages. For me, fitting an unknown secondhand unit without refurbishment just wasn't an option - in fact, I'm surprised you even mentioned it Mc Nulters

I've just not heard of it being a problem. Perhaps two or three in my seven years around the cars? There were plenty of cars seven years ago that were higher mileages than that, and plenty of older cars as well. That's why I'd consider a used one, but if it's that little to recon one then absolutely it's the way to go. Give me RGA's details and I'll stick it in the suppliers faq.

I wonder if later cars wear them out more? I guess, by definition, a torque tube has more stress on it in more powerful models, and we will see this become more common with S2s and Turbos than it was with Luxes.

Of course, turbos might not have a problem as they have so little torque anyway. It's the S2 with the twisting power of a Dodge Viper that will be damaging the TT bearings. Just for Oli, that. [][][]

 

[Lowtimer]

Are they actually the same on all models, or do the likes of a Turbo / S2/ 968 have beefier ones than a Lux or 924?

 

[chrisg]

Wolfie

Removing and replacing the torque tube on a 944 is a pretty lengthy and time consuming job (not one I've done myself), but requires:

1. Exhaust off
2. Gearbox and driveshafts off
3. Starter motor, heat shields etc at the front end
4. Axle removed
5. Torque tube undo and removed

With the exception of 4. and undoing the bell housing, you have to do all of the above to change the clutch.

So, yes it will add a little more labour time and the cost of your clutch components to the job, but it's a case of whilst you're in there....

 

[barks944]

Wolfie could you PM me the contact details for the company that are doing your torque tube?

 

[wolfie308]

Not sure if you received them, but I did P.M you, barks944 and McNulters(didn't get read receipt, so not sure if function working properly)

Anyway, update is - sadly the torque tube sent down by RPM which came off a crashed car is apparently obviously bent [] and I'm going to need to source another. Guess what - they happen to have another which they could supply, but want £100 for it which I thought was a bit steep.

What would be the going rate to get one shipped to Central London?......Alasdair or Elliot?

It may be that with carriage there's not much in it, and safer to go with their's, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

 

[Eric_Oz_S2]

My S2 torque tube bearing died at around 140,000km. I think part of the problem was that dirt and dust got into the bearings through the front slit in the torque tube that the S2's have. The rear bearing was also on the way out though - again probably due to dust getting in through the bell housing over 20 years. By contrast the no 2 and 3 bearings were pretty good (I replaced them anyway). I rebuilt mine myself and it was an incredibly arduous and frustrating task. It took me quite a while to find C4 bearings which are as close to the original 6006ZZC5 as I could get. Most bearing you find are C3, which means they have tighter tolerances and will perhaps arguably not last as long given the environment these things run in. I also had to get the bushes that fit between the bearing and driveshaft fabricated out of delrin plastic.

In any case, I believe spending the money on a rebuild is money well spent. I would gladly have paid £275. I would also have gladly paid less for a used one, although with the effort of getting these things in and out I would be more comfortable with a rebuilt unit. These things are difficult to rebuild without the proper equipment (I did mine using threaded rod, large washers, a jack and a length of galvanised steel pipe).

Eric

 

[zcacogp]

Clutches - if you have the TT out then you will be 90% of the way towards seeing the back of the clutch, so it's well worth doing at the same time. Max at Frazerpart was the cheapest for me when I bought a clutch for my S2 as well - I think he has a deal directly with the suppliers, which may explain why he is cheaper. But check that you aren't making a silly mistake, like comparing a VAT-exclusive price with a VAT-inclusive one.

Another 'while you are in there' is the clutch release bearing, as mine was shot at 150k miles. And while you have the gearbox off it's worth rebuilding the geachange linkage on top of it. Neither of which will be expensive.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
Of course, turbos might not have a problem as they have so little torque anyway. It's the S2 with the twisting power of a Dodge Viper that will be damaging the TT bearings. Just for Oli, that. [][][]

Aw, fanks McNulters! I always wondered what having friends would feel like - maybe now I know! []


Oli.

 

[wolfie308]

Hey Eric, seriously impressive work - a lot of well known independent specialists appear to put this job out to someone with a full machine shop/toolmaking experience. Hopefully, for peace of mind, I've decided to go with the one they have for an extra £100 making £450 in total with 20% tax, plus return carriage to my garage.

Oli, after careful consideration, I've decided to get the clutch changed as you're right, most of the dismantling has to be done in any case. Frazerpart were indeed the cheapest on my most recent check round, currently £512 inc VAT(and delivery). Release bearing comes as part of the kit []. Gear change is fine, so one small cost saved.

Looks like this will be a big bill, meaning I'll have spent north of £2k this year in maintenance already and it's only March! []

 

[Elliot]

ORIGINAL: wolfie308

Not sure if you received them, but I did P.M you, barks944 and McNulters(didn't get read receipt, so not sure if function working properly)

Anyway, update is - sadly the torque tube sent down by RPM which came off a crashed car is apparently obviously bent [] and I'm going to need to source another. Guess what - they happen to have another which they could supply, but want £100 for it which I thought was a bit steep.

What would be the going rate to get one shipped to Central London?......Alasdair or Elliot?

It may be that with carriage there's not much in it, and safer to go with their's, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

i could supply one with a shipping cost of £35 if it gets you out of trouble cheers

 

[zcacogp]

Changing the clutch may be an extra £500, but it could be quite a lot of money saved; if you were to leave the old one in and it went pop in a year or so's time you'd be kicking yourself, and having to pay a lot more for the change.

ORIGINAL: wolfie308
Looks like this will be a big bill, meaning I'll have spent north of £2k this year in maintenance already and it's only March! []

.. and that's the way the cookie sometimes crumbles. This year is an expensive year - sorry to hear it. Hopefully next year will be a cheap one. Keep the car for a long time and it will even out over the years. My S2 cost me quite a lot last year in waterpump and belts and HT leads, and the year before that was a similar price as I changed the clutch. I'm hoping this year will be a cheap one.


Oli.

 

[wolfie308]

Elliot, shame I didn't read your reply before I'd comitted to the other unit [] - I'll give you a call first next time I need something.

Oli, unfortunately it's looking like a pretty average year(as long as no further big surprises) I've had my S.2 as my only car/daily driver for just over 7 years now and my total bills after this job are close to £14k. Reckon it's worth about £2k less than I paid for it. So that works out about £2.3k p.a including depreciation.

Not too bad when you look at it in those terms, and I've got a 944 in better overall fettle than when I bought it.

Just a thought - would it be worth doing the engine rear oil seal as a 'while you're in there' job as well?

 

[wolfie308]

Well....for a variety of reasons, things have dragged on somewhat. Was hoping to pick up my car after today after a week at the menders, but just had a call to say that in addition to the clutch, I also need clutch shaft bearing,clutch fork and the link on top of the gearbox. I guess that would explain why 1st to 2nd had become a bit of a dogleg shift!

This is going to be a big bill plus I probably need 2 new front tyres for the MOT which has just expired [&o]