Which 944?

[CampDavid]

Having delivered a friends new 928 accross London last week after buying at auction it's become hugely apparent that I really need a Porsche in my life. While the 928 is an epic car I'm a bit scared by the bills and I'm pretty sure it'd be pointless on track. The 944 sounds like a much better idea.

Which one though?

The car won't be a daily driver, the train and tube take care of that and we have a diesel Astra for the dull stuff. It will have to sit on the street though. The car will mainly be used for weekends away, trackdays and some longer trips to Europe and Germany's best toll road.

Am I best off with a Coupe or a Cabrio? The idea of a Cabrio appeals however does it lose much as a driver's car?

Turbo or NA? The NA seems to have about the same sort of power, though the oddly it also seems that they have more issues than the Turbo, am I right on this?

I've read a fair bit about the "MO30 handling kit" which apparently also has an LSD, was it only the Turbo that got this?

Thanks!!

 

[edh]

there's a short answer to this....

944 Turbo [] (although you may not get the same opinion from everyone here [])

Actually, they all make good track cars, if a little on the heavy side (1300-1400kg). It kind of depends how much power you want, and where you're going to drive it. I wouldn't think a cab is the greatest idea as a track car, but I have seen some out there & they still go round pretty well.

The later 250 Turbo models (Starting with the '88 Silver Rose) are a slightly better starting point for a track car. M030 was the adjustable sports suspension, usually supplied with option 220 (LSD) as well. M030 should be stiffer than standard, but isn't the ultimate track suspension any more, and cars still fitted with the original kit may be more than a little tired by now. Recently renewed 030 dampers would be worth having though.

The turbo has far more tuning potential - it may be close in stock from, but you can easily & cheaply get plenty more torque & hp.

Have a search for some recent threads on this topic

 

[944s2]

Trackdays= TURBO

Anything else S2[]

 

[John Sims]

How deep are your pockets? Can you get insurance on a tuned turbo?

Do you just want to tick the "Owned a Porsche" box? - Get a Boxster - it could well be cheaper.

The fitted suspension of a 20 year old car is almost irrelevant as it will be sad and saggy. The main advantage of M030 is the hubs and brakes. The M030 brakes are very good as standard but can be easily upgraded. Any other set up you will have a cieling before resorting to less desirable radial adaptor blocks.

Try to get to drive all three types. They are all very different.

 

[drummerboytom]

NA as a daily
Turbo for fun / weekend car

 

[zcacogp]

Hello and welcome.

Best advice is to look at a few and see what you like. There is a lot of discussion on here about what the advantages and disadvantages of the different models are, so have a read and a think.

Broadly, the Turbos have the potential to produce a lot of power if you are happy to spend to get it, but are (reputedly) not as good to drive as the n/a models straight out of the box.

I have an S2, which I love, but on occasions I sometimes wonder whether I would have been happier with a turbo. Having said that, it is a 20k miles/year daily driver, and people tend to recommend the S2 for such purposes so maybe I made the right choice after all.


Oli.

 

[John Sims]

Unless you want to tune a Turbo to get more power there is no point having one over an S2.

The S2 has nice linear power delivery which, in almost every situation which doesn't need brute force, is better.

Turbos have lag and less torque off boost. They tend to deliver their power in a great big blob - excellent in a straight line but a bit hairy in the twisty bits. This being the case they can be far more brutal to drive quick. Going quick it is all or nothing most of the time.

With a Turbo (more so if tuned) you have to allow them to settle after a bend before deploying the power. It comes in so hard that it will upset the car mid corner otherwise. An S2 is much more linear so you can squeeze in the power sooner.

So in summary - In standard form there is insufficient power difference between a Turbo & S2 to offset the unpleasantness of a Turbo engine. If you want to tune the car, the Turbo will deliver far more power but will be even more visceral to drive. It will make you laugh but that could be in terror.

 

[944 man]

I dont have anything to add, other than to emphasise that M030 didnt include an LSD, which was a seperate option (M220). Im not sure that either would be high ro my list of priorities now. I had a new car with M030 and it was fantastic, but suspension has come on a long way since then, even if the parts fitted to your car were like new, which they wont be, they will be inferior in both ride and handling, to modern replacements. The brakes of course, are still excellent. With regards to the differential: Id be extremely surprised if an original diff would give any practical benefit now, because they all need rebuilding...

Simon

 

[CampDavid]

Cheers for all the posts on this, I did search but couldn't find a lot, I'll have a proper go tonight.

I would like to keep it reasonabley standard, however I'm not adverse to spending to get the suspension into top condition. How easy, in practice is it to work on? i've replaced every single suspension conponent on my Saxo VTS myself so I'm hoping the porshe will be similar in difficulty.

It does appear then that the S2 could well be the car to buy. I'll need to go have a look at a few. It seems like a good solid S2 can be had from the small ads for about 2-4, with milage seamingly the factor that influences price the most. Most adds also seem to mention the beltsso I'm guessing these are an expencive thing to have done?

I'll keep searching through here, it does seem a nice friendly place with a lot of knowledge

 

[CampDavid]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

How deep are your pockets? Can you get insurance on a tuned turbo?

Do you just want to tick the "Owned a Porsche" box? - Get a Boxster - it could well be cheaper.

The fitted suspension of a 20 year old car is almost irrelevant as it will be sad and saggy. The main advantage of M030 is the hubs and brakes. The M030 brakes are very good as standard but can be easily upgraded. Any other set up you will have a cieling before resorting to less desirable radial adaptor blocks.

Try to get to drive all three types. They are all very different.

Thanks

I was thinking of the Boxster but in reality I think the 944 just appeals a whole load more. The child in me wants pop up lights and the Porsche that I dribbled over when I was 7, but mainly I fancy having a car that can work as a great weekend car while still being able to leave it on the street outside

 

[pauly]

It all comes down to budget and what you want from the car, as has been said turbo's are a bit all or nothing in the power delivery, a good S2 is supposed to be a nice car but they don't do anything for me, I'd rather have a cheap 968.

 

[sawood12]

At least you have chosen a 944 so you're at least on the right track. I like some versions of the 928 but sort of think it is a pointless car for the UK - too big, too thirsty, too expensive. It was clearly build specifically to wet the appetites of the US market. Well whatever model you decide to go for you should bank on having to spend a wad cash on it in the first few years. Once you have decided on your model then only three things matter in terms of what to look out for. 1. condition, 2. condition & 3. condition. Don't worry about colour, age, milage, M030 or anything else. If you buy a pup it will make your life a misery.

Ultimately it depends on how you like to drive your cars. If you are a lazy driver and like the long distance GT style high speed cruises then go N/A. If you like twisty country lanes, a good kick in your back when you hit the accelarator and like to be involved in the driving experience and have a desire to master a car, then only the turbo will satisfy your needs. IN terms of running costs of the S2 vs. turbo. They are about the same in the long term.

Targeting M030 and LSD's is a false economy. They will almost certainly be in need of refurbishment (a stock LSD is only really good for 40k miles before it would benefit from a refurb and if it's not been refurbed at all then it is almost effectively an open diff) and the cost of refurb is very close if not more than aftermarket kit. So in some ways you are better off not targetting those options and installing aftermarket.

 

[944Turbo]

Interesting on the LSD's mine has done the best part of 200k and it still seems to work, both wheels spin together (or neither) even out of the tightest corners, how would the 40k wear show up?

Tony

 

[Frenchy]

My LSD has done 115k still very quiet and does what it says on the tin ? with regards to choice of cars the S2 is a better everyday driver and surprisingly economical,check that the cam chain tensioner slipper pad which is nylon and wears introducing slack in the chain eventually it will wear the camshaft teeth and in some cases jump off the teeth ££££ this is not classed as a service item.
The Turbo has the biggest grin factor and when fettled(tuned) correctly pretty much losses the lag and goes like stink, the 220 turbo is a good everyday drivers car wih a smaller turbo and less lag as standard.
Look for rust in the sills and and on the bottom of the front wings,check for leaky sunroofs if fitted.
Cars fitted with Brembo brakes can suffer from corrosion with the aluminium housing causing the stainless steel slipper pads to "nip"the pads.
Accident repaired cars generally seem to rust as the repairs are not always carried out correctly,depends on who has repaired them,i have seen work come out of approved body repair shops which was very average.
Parts can be sourced reasonably and specialist breakers are about.
As previously posted condition,condition,condition

 

[944Turbo]

Oh and to go back on topic a bit, I have driven my turbo daily and not had any issues, ok, you probably have to change gear more than in an S2 (still not driven one) but I like changing gear.
Tony

 

[sawood12]

I've read on several forums that the LSD's wear pretty quickly as they have fewer plates than an aftermarket diff would have. If you look at most aftermarket LSD's they have more friction plates and last longer. This means the stock diffs slacken off so will allow more slip before locking- still better than an open diff but if you're a keen trackdayer then the diff will be pretty slack. Not a problem in itself but it costs roughly the same to have a stock diff refurbished as it does to buy and install an aftermarket diff, so no point in going overboard, making compromises and possibly paying a premium for a car with an LSD if an LSD is important to you.

 

[MarkK]

If you are after a weekend toy,get a Turbo,they are different, fun and involving to drive... and the kick in the back is addictive(and as other people have said so is the tuning,if you tune it a bit its quite reasonable.....( if you get greedy for silly power....not so reasonable)
I had a 968 CS,went back to a turbo-It was a good car and the S2 i am sure is superb aswell but if you have to chose one......[8|]???
My turbos have done circa 80k both LSDs work fine,one gets more work than the other[]

 

[Frenchy]

Digressing again,the type AOR diff as fitted to the Silverose and probably 250 turbos thereafter had thicker clutch plates than the 220 models.

 

[TTM]

Go for a turbo if you want a car you have to look after, or for an S2 if you want car that will look after you.

 

[zcacogp]

Actually, I reckon the lower-powered NA models don't get enough airtime on this forum. I know that the OP said that he isn't looking for a daily driver, but for such duties I reckon the Lux models would be spot on. I know little about them, but from what I have seen of them they are not half as much the poorer cousins as we would think. They have a number of LARGE advantages over the S2/Turbo models as well:

1. They are almost always cheaper to buy, to insure, and to run (in terms of MPG)
2. They don't have the silly S2/Turbo bodytrims so won't rust in the same way
3. They have sensible brakes, so won't suffer from the Brembo brake lift that afflicts S2's/Turbos
4. They have neither the complexity of the S2 head nor that of the turbo forced induction system, therefore will be more reliable (theoretically)
5. They have front wings and bumpers which are much more common second-hand, so repairing crunched front ends will be possible with much more easily available scrap parts

I also have a personal theory that earlier cars are better built than later ones, and don't rust as much. Therefore, as a daily driver, I suspect a good Lux may just trump the higher-powered models quite readily.

Just my $0.02's worth.


Oli.