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Which Super Unleaded do you use and why...


Mr Demon, you are entitled to your views, however I would question the validity of some of your statements.

"If you want less BHP buy normal petrol" The calorific value determines the amount of power that can be extracted from fuel, of course a retarded ignition timing does produce less BHP than an advanced timing, but the knock sensors whose function is to identify pre-ignition only have a very small adjustment potential, the difference between fully retarded and fully advanced is 3 to 5 degrees so on a naturally aspirated car the potential in percentage terms is about 2% more bhp on a fully advanced engine, The higher the octane fuel prevents pre-ignition and in the absence of knock the engine will run in its maximum advanced state, If there is some knock detection then the ecu will retard the timing until knock is absent, of course load, temperature and atmospheric pressure all have an affect on knock generation.
So technically you are right that more power can be derived from a higher RON but that difference is so small it ceases to be "real" power a driver would notice, and of course we all drive around at full throttle all the time to take advantage of that extra power.

On a Turbo engine, yes there will be a bigger difference, the forced air does lead to create pre-ignition so more complicated engine mapping is called for and a greater degree of adjustment in the potential for knock sensor adjustment, usually lower compression ratios are the norm from the naturally aspirated engine - but a difference of 40 BHP just from ignition timing adjustment between a 95 ron fuel and a 99 ron fuel is unbelievable, unless of course the car develops 900 plus BHP in production form.


You also say, "As for cleaning, well it's is a well known fact that these new direct fuel engines coke up over time" OK, there is perhaps some validity in this comment, however DI engines with over 75K have very similar carbon build ups as non DI engines, There is a school of thought that the intake of fuel from a non DI engine washes deposits from the back of the valves and therefore keep them clean, but, in a DI engine there is no advantage in using high detergent fuel or other cleaning additives in fuel as the DI engine injects its fuel after the valves therefore no amount of cleaning agents within the fuel will have any effect on carbon build up above the valves or in the intake manifold.
There was a fantastic amount of R&D that went into the development of DI before it was launched and hence the development of EGR systems and a different type of catalyst construction, however, all manufactures - and I mean all, are looking to introduce DI as the next step forward in engine design, and this is just a stepping stone to all electric or fuel cell technology for the future.

DI engines also run a very lean mixture, NA engines typically burn fuel/air at 14.7:1, DI engines 40:1 - therefore MPG is better, DI places fuel in the most advantaged spot within the combustion chamber to get the cleanest burn and extract the highest calorific value from the fuel.

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment regarding the "Feel good factor" from using these fuels, If spending a few quid more per year gives that reassurance then it works for you, it works for the fuel supplier, it works for the advertising campaign and everyone is happy.
Im not trying to say everyone that swears by a fuel supplier, type of fuel etc etc is stupid, I just question the real benefits and the claims made by companies in their marketing blurb.
Then again, I don't buy bottled water I get it out the tap, I do buy economy or "value" range eggs, I don't buy anti wrinkle creams or whitening toothpaste because all you are buying into is the advertising gimmick.
 
so you seem to agree with all what I have posted , but disagree ;-)

I spent a long time with my TTRS taking it from 330bhp to 430BHp
the temp outside and the fuel plays a massive part in getting 430BHp from the car as does intake temps.
when the car pulls timing the net result is awefull, BHP is lost in massive chunks if the ECU has to knock back the timing, also every intake temp rise saps BHP.

Audi also make the oil run hotter to combat coke up issue.

yes on a NA gains are much lower, but I drive a Cayman R with 330BHp it's faster than a normal Cayman with 320BHP. it matters not that I drive it at WOT all the time, it's a faster car when it needs to be.
now put 99 ron in a 320bhp car and 95 ron in my car and I wonder what would happen. ?

I like to have the advantage I paid for 100%, I want all my horses to be working when I call upon them.
I feel v power offers me this which no other fuel seems too.

I have also had hicuping cars when switching brands on older cars hence why I stick to vpower 100% of the time now

our mini CS gets what it can, some times it drives like shit some times it's ok I can only put this down to fuel and ron.

I have never run 95 ron in the R, I won't take the risk on a misfire or less bhp for the £100 PA it costs me to do this.

tuners have done tests on turbo cars and yes 40bhp can be had tuning a car to the max with 99 ron over 95 ron fuel, this is a max figure, but I would say over 20bhp is a easy tune to match fuel.
that's very cheap BHP.

Imran does does MIni and BMW tuning and is regarding as one of the best did a test on a 335i

these were the results

1 - tuned* with Shell V Power 99 (370-390 BHP)
2 - tuned* with 95 RON (340-346 BHP)
3 - standard with Shell V Power 99 (311-330 BHP)
4 - standard with 95 RON (290-302 BHP)
 
Oh dear, I was hoping to avoid contributing to yet another thread on octane rating, but I really can't let it pass without leaping to Glyn's defence, since I agree with much of what he has said.

I have no petrochemical experience whatsoever, but I do have modest knowledge of fuel-related power outputs.

When involved in motorsport, the car we used at the time had 6 engine maps. These were selectable in accordance with the nature of the event we were competing in and the fuel to be used. Map 1 produced the lowest power and Map 6 the highest. The car had a sophisticated programmable Motec ECU system with the individual maps obtained from a great deal of track testing and down-loaded to the ECU via a laptop.

107 octane fuel was used for Map 6 (it was blue, would melt concrete, give you headache and watery eyes, if you weren't careful.) [:(]
107 could be used with Map 1 without problem, although it was a waste since it produced no more power than 95. But you definitely wouldn't use 95 with Map 6 as it would cause pre-ignition, eventually destroying the engine. Detonation is the scourge of race engines. [:mad:]

I still have some 107 Octane in churns and my current road car would run quite happily on it, but I wouldn't expect bolt-shearing power, not unless I had someone remap the engine. But then I'd be stuck if I needed an emergency refill in wastes of Bodmin Moor or somewhere, because low octane would damage my high octane mapped engine. High octane fuel burns cooler and more efficiently, so engine timing can be advanced appreciably and this produces more power.

Since around 2006 retailers, particularly the giant supermarket chains have been pumping a blend of petrol containing bioethanol, a type of alcohol made by fermenting sugars from plants. Modern cars run perfectly well on the mix and because bioethanol is almost always greener to make than petrol, the admixture helps reduce greenhouse gas emissions and is less reliant on oil reserves. The spread of bioethanol across supermarket garages is being driven by Greenergy, a company based on the River Thames. Greenergy buys in cheap ethanol produced from sugarcane in Brazil and blends it with petrol, before selling it on to Tesco etc. The fuel is better for the environment, and allows Tesco et alia to compete with other petrol outlets as ethanol is so cheap.

Warranties on today's standard cars state that no more than 5% bioethanol should be used. Bioethanol is acidic and damages aluminium components and rubber seals. Adding ethanol to petrol in larger quantities does strange things to the vapour pressure too, which is a measure of how volatile and potentially explosive it is and it attracts water from condensation. Alcohol and water mix exceptionally well (particularly in drinks at the bar [8|] ). This can leave an uncomfortable situation with a blend of gasoline, water and alcohol sloshing around in storage tanks and later, in your fuel tank.

This is the reason I personally tend to steer clear of supermarket fuel where possible, as there have been quite a few instances of fuel contamination. [8|]

Regards,

Clive

 

ORIGINAL: Glyn


I do buy economy or "value" range eggs,
I would rather get mine from the local farm where the hens run around outside and aren't pumped full of antibiotics, crammed in little cages and then sent for slaughter after a year - but that's another issue..[;)]
 
there is no defence as every one seems to be agreeing on the most part.

I also had 3 maps on my TTRS to suit intake temps and fuel.

there are many many tests by indie's to prove vpower and a higher ron give you more BHP even without a remap.


there are also many people who I know and on forums that have had issues with lumpy running cars on normal pump 95 ron fuel , me inc.

So the net result is buy the best if you run a 60k performance car, it does not cost that much extra per year to run vpower, and if you run a shed with no knock sensor run 95 ron fuel.

I must say I buy free range eggs, white toothpaste and skin cream also.

all 3 of the above are also proven to work or be better than normal home brands.

I don't look 45 years old, I have white teeth and my eggs taste good, like wise my Porsche runs well.
 
I have noticed that when using standard unleaded I get a slight hesitation in the throttle response when pulling away from cold, which disappears when I use Shell V Power! I therefore try to always use V Power.
Plus I believe all the marketing hype ... Perhaps another example of the Placebo effect [:D]


 
There is no doubt that "eggs is definately not eggs"😃

My brother has spent a lifetime in the oil business and far more expert than most,and uses 95 Ron in his merc cl!! But he has told me to use super in my Porsche and he has no shell shares( but thousands of BP!!)

He also doesn't buy into supermarket fuel being as good as shell/BP ,he also prefers free range eggs [:)]
 

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

Greenergy buys in cheap ethanol produced from sugarcane in Brazil and blends it with petrol, before selling it on to Tesco etc. The fuel is better for the environment, and allows Tesco et alia to compete with other petrol outlets as ethanol is so cheap.

Better for the environment - unless they chopped down hundreds of acres of rainforest to grow it!

For my first season of racing we used one of the Sunoco "pump" fuels which was 100 Octane. I now use VPower and that's saved me a few £grand over this season. I'm sure I'm not noticing any difference!

Chris.
 
I've got a 3.2 986 and the 95ron feels faster to me than 97. Maybe its a bit fresher as the turnover rate is higher?

However where possible I always put 97+ RON, as the cr is 11:1. The maths means it must be better. :)

 
Yep. I prefer to run my 3.2 986 on 99 RON which means Shell V-Power Nitro+ 'Unleaded' (not the similarly labelled diesel they sell; it really annoys me that Shell call their premium grade of diesel Shell V-Power Nitro+ too).

I sometimes use Tesco 99 if I can't find a Shell station. The very few occasions I've put 95 RON in the car it definitely feels like there's less power and economy isn't as good. I've even managed to achieve 41.3 MPG (not often I'll admit) on Shell V-Power Nitro+.
 
The decarbonising service consists of negatively charged carbon atoms that are injected into the engine combined with 105 RON fuel, the negatively charged atoms are supposed to attach to the positively charged carbon atoms within the engine and remove them.

Be sceptical, it has made a noticeable difference. Most definitely NOT placebo as the car runs a hell of a lot better. MPG has risen by approx 3-5mpg depending on driving style, it starts a lot quicker and idles smoother. The slight hesitation in the lower RPM has also ceased.
 
It's Tesco Momentum 99 that contains bio-ethanol. Shell V-Power Nitro+ does not. Apparently the bio-ethanol has a derogatory effect on seals etc and accelerates engine wear?
 

ORIGINAL: 986lover

It's Tesco Momentum 99 that contains bio-ethanol. Shell V-Power Nitro+ does not.

I think that you'll find that Shell V-Power contains 5% bio-ethanol. I suppose that it should really be branded 99E5-octane.

Jeff
 
I believe it is a legal requirement - which has just been extended to 2016. I also believe it's the 10% ethanol fuel that causes the problems to older cars fuel pipery as all UK petrol now has 5% bioethanol.
http://www.v8register.net/sub/news130829ethanolfuelupdate.htm
 

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