Wide alloy wheels....

[stevespic]

How wide, what style and where from......Running along side the topic is a 944 wide enough i thought i would start another post about the wheels to keep on topic.....So wheres the best place to get BBS style wheels and how wide can you go on the back of a 944s2? i am currently running 265 on the rear at the moment and 225 on the front...i did notice Ricks car at silverstone this year was wearing some extra wide tyres on the rear were they 295s ?

This is the wheel style i would like to change to (with or without the wide arches ).

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/spicster1974/951GT2LFFlare1.jpg

 

[Fen]

I'm going to make the same comment as on the wide body thread - it will be over-tyred and detrimental to the driving experience.

That said, how much space do you have either side of your existing wheels/tyres before they would hit something? You could calculate the rough answer to your question by adding the clearance you have (inside and outside) in mm to the width of your current tyres, then you need to consider the offset you need by determining how much of the extra width is inside and how much is outside. The difference is how much you need to adjust your current offset to fit them. Rim width is just to suit the width of tyre you come up with.

I'd suspect that if you were to go with 18" BBS split rims in the sort of widths you'd need that (with tyres they'd cost roughly) what an S2 is worth these days if not more. They are nice wheels though.

 

[stevespic]

ORIGINAL: Fen
I'm going to make the same comment as on the wide body thread - it will be over-tyred and detrimental to the driving experience.

How do you Detrimental ? is it not the case that the more rubber you have down the more grip you will get ?, at leaste in the dry any way !....Hence why this 968 at brands was wearing super wide tyres....
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/spicster1974/Photo0412.jpg

[]

 

[Fen]

Don't confuse grip with handling.

If you go too wide then you will get any or all of; tramlining, increased noise, bump steer, poor wet weather grip, sudden breakaway when the limit is reached, crashiness in suspension performance, reduced acceleration, loss of feedback etc. All of those are detrimental.

 

[stevespic]

I totaly understand what you saying Fen, but if i was a fool and was happy to put up with points you have mentioned ................Wheres the best place to buy wheels of these types without having to sell an arm or two ?

Cheers.
Steve.

 

[Fen]

I don't know where the best place to buy BBS wheels is to be honest. Much as I like them they've always been too rich for my blood.

 

[333pg333]

I actually heard that BBS might be in some financial difficulty and that was from someone that would know. You can get some pretty nice replica wheels or at least along similar designs for a lot less. Some Japanese wheels are surprisingly well made and can be very good value.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=362134
I have a friend with the Enkei wheels like the ones pictured and they look very good on his car and are light and well made.

 

[John Sims]

[OT]

I'm so glad we don't have advertising like that on this forum.

[/OT]

Wheels make a big difference to the look of a car and it is much easier to fit the wrong wheels than the right ones.

BBS wheels look good. Perhaps because of their racing association with Porsches over the years you don't mentaly baulk when you see BBS wheels on a Porsche. Porsche wheels look good on a Porsche. There are few newer Porsche wheels that don't look good on earlier cars (though I'm not sure about GT3 wheels and the current perforated five spoke design).

If you are after the whole Race Car thing then you need "proper" wheels. You need proper wheels from companies with a proper pedigree in producing wheels for racing cars. Too many companies produce wheels that are all look and little substance and I wouldn't want to trust them on a race track.

 

[Tam Lin]

Hi there

Do Enkei make PCD 130 high offset wheels? I spent a while last year looking for the lightest forged ET 42-52 wheel I could for my particular need, and I didn't find many that fit: Dymag came closest, but they're well and truly made from unobtanium.

 

[MarkK]

Sorry don't remember the brand but i have seen a brand new lightweight (they looked lightweight too ) japanese wheel totally buckle on a tricked out GT3 mk1 at Donnington a little over a year ago,the wheel looked like it collapsed then dug in,the car went into a tyre wall and looked pretty wrecked(felt very bad for the driver a nice bloke,looked very upset as you can imagine..),few years before also seen a german brand(not BBS) wheel rip the spokes at the hub on a tuned 911 turbo(that crashed too),wheels really can fail which makes me worry about 16 inch forged clubsport 944 turbo wheels,i have heard of them failing aswell(anyone else heard that??) the spokes are so thin,and they are so old now...In a nutshell i would say get good quality wheels whatever you happen to choose and check them(at least quickly) after a trackday for fractures and cracks.Any wheel that is good value when they are new would worry me for track use.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: MarkK

Sorry don't remember the brand but i have seen a brand new lightweight (they looked lightweight too ) japanese wheel totally buckle on a tricked out GT3 mk1 at Donnington a little over a year ago,the wheel looked like it collapsed then dug in,the car went into a tyre wall and looked pretty wrecked(felt very bad for the driver a nice bloke,looked very upset as you can imagine..),few years before also seen a german brand(not BBS) wheel rip the spokes at the hub on a tuned 911 turbo(that crashed too),wheels really can fail which makes me worry about 16 inch forged clubsport 944 turbo wheels,i have heard of them failing aswell(anyone else heard that??) the spokes are so thin,and they are so old now...In a nutshell i would say get good quality wheels whatever you happen to choose and check them(at least quickly) after a trackday for fractures and cracks.Any wheel that is good value when they are new would worry me for track use.

OK, so make me paranoid just before my Donnington trackday, why don't you.....[8|]

[][]

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: MarkK

wheels really can fail which makes me worry about 16 inch forged clubsport 944 turbo wheels,i have heard of them failing aswell(anyone else heard that??) the spokes are so thin,

Someone on here did snap a spoke on 944 clubsport forged rims off this forum around 3 years ago I think, so you are correct Mark.

Although it is the only case I have heard of. But shhhhh!!! I have taken mine off for now, don't want people to think they are inferior as they are getting rarer these days.

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: spic01

ORIGINAL: Fen
I'm going to make the same comment as on the wide body thread - it will be over-tyred and detrimental to the driving experience.

How do you Detrimental ? is it not the case that the more rubber you have down the more grip you will get ?, at leaste in the dry any way !....Hence why this 968 at brands was wearing super wide tyres....
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/spicster1974/Photo0412.jpg

[]

Steve. Aparently this 968 is one of the very few RARE TUBO,s, and will no dought need the wider tyre for grip...
Its also very highly developed...

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Fen

Don't confuse grip with handling.

If you go too wide then you will get any or all of; tramlining, increased noise, bump steer, poor wet weather grip, sudden breakaway when the limit is reached, crashiness in suspension performance, reduced acceleration, loss of feedback etc. All of those are detrimental.

To add to Fen's excellent summary of why tyres can be too wide, Steve, no - wider does NOT mean more grip in any condition. Tyres are designed to be run at a certain temperature; rubber properties are such that they grip best within a fairly narrow temperature range. Tyres heat up when they are used, and tyres should be chosen such that, for the anticipated driving, they will reach a temperature within this ideal range. (Before they are warmed up, they won't grip well as they will be too hard, which is why F1 tyres are heated with tyre heaters before a race, and F1 cars will do a couple of circuits before the race to ensure the tyres are well and truly warm - and they will weave all over the place while doing this to get as much heat into the tyres as possible. Racing teams will use a tool called a tyre pyrometer to measure the temperature of tyres to ensure that they are in the correct temperature range to drive on.)

Wider tyres need more power to heat them up, so if you fit too wide a set of tyres onto your car then you will never be able to heat them up to their ideal operating range, and hence they will grip less than correctly-sized (narrower) tyres. However, if you increase the power of your car, you may find that you are over-powering the width of tyre fitted, and hence need wider ones. That is why more powerful cars have wider tyres.

Don't be fooled by 'stylists' who would have you fit as wider tyres as possible. 'Posers' may think that bigger is better. 'Drivers' will find the optimum arrangement, and not be bothered by the looks.


Oli.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: Fen

Don't confuse grip with handling.

If you go too wide then you will get any or all of; tramlining, increased noise, bump steer, poor wet weather grip, sudden breakaway when the limit is reached, crashiness in suspension performance, reduced acceleration, loss of feedback etc. All of those are detrimental.

To add to Fen's excellent summary of why tyres can be too wide, Steve, no - wider does NOT mean more grip in any condition. Tyres are designed to be run at a certain temperature; rubber properties are such that they grip best within a fairly narrow temperature range. Tyres heat up when they are used, and tyres should be chosen such that, for the anticipated driving, they will reach a temperature within this ideal range. (Before they are warmed up, they won't grip well as they will be too hard, which is why F1 tyres are heated with tyre heaters before a race, and F1 cars will do a couple of circuits before the race to ensure the tyres are well and truly warm - and they will weave all over the place while doing this to get as much heat into the tyres as possible. Racing teams will use a tool called a tyre pyrometer to measure the temperature of tyres to ensure that they are in the correct temperature range to drive on.)

Wider tyres need more power to heat them up, so if you fit too wide a set of tyres onto your car then you will never be able to heat them up to their ideal operating range, and hence they will grip less than correctly-sized (narrower) tyres. However, if you increase the power of your car, you may find that you are over-powering the width of tyre fitted, and hence need wider ones. That is why more powerful cars have wider tyres.

Don't be fooled by 'stylists' who would have you fit as wider tyres as possible. 'Posers' may think that bigger is better. 'Drivers' will find the optimum arrangement, and not be bothered by the looks.


Oli.

The other issue is that you can adversely affect the handling balance of the car, creating too much understeer by over-tyring the rears etc.

Cars with too much grip and not enough handling are never as much fun as those with more handling than grip, imho[]

Bathes in the memories of his old Renault 4 on 135 tyres and sailing yacht levels of body roll, desperately trying to maintain momentum along winding country roads in North Wales....[]

 

[333pg333]

The Enkei wheels are a good quality product, but there is no substitute for safety than strength. Not sure if you can get the Aussie brand Simons in the UK. They've been around for a fair while and been on a high percentage of race cars in Australia over the years. Their product while not overly heavy is also not finger lifting light and even they suggest changing wheels after a few seasons depending on what sort of racing you do, car setup, and frequency.
They're old school but strong, and I still think the 5 spoke is the best balanced looking wheel on our cars. IMHO.
queue chance for another gratuitous shot of car.[]
http://www.simmonswheel.com.au/race_wheels/

 

[John Sims]

IIRC the Turbo Cup cars had 235's all round. This strikes me as quite a good balance on a Turbo. Power delivery is such that you can't plant a lot of power during a corner so you want to carry as much speed through the corner as you can. For this a good balanced turn in must help so you don't want nasty [:'(] under steer. The more poke you can carry into the corner the less the Turbo spools down so it is ready to give more power sooner when you need it and potentially without the same belt in the back as it pressurises from a relative stand still.

Front tyres do most of the braking as well so bigger fronts give you harder stopping - provided your brakes are up to it.

This is just my theory and and I don't have comparative lap times to prove or disprove it.

BTW tyre temperature can tell you a lot about your car, particularly temperature across the width of the tyre and comparable temperatures over the four tyres. But then you knew that. []

 

[J.C944TurboMan]

[FONT=rod transparent"]
Alright Steve , Very nice wheels indeed , If you notice the tyres are not to wide , what you see in the picture is what's know as a deep dish Rim , This is due to the offset of the rim ,But to achieve this look on the front you would need them flared arches ,Back to the topic of is the 944 wide enough , if you fit those deep dish BBS Alloys to the front of a normal 944 then half the tyre will be sticking out from the wing and is illegal and M.O.T failure .You could fit the same style split rim BBS which are fanfastic but with a diffrent offset , smaller lip say 1-2inch dish and would still look fantastic , put in BBS in a Google search , I have seen those BBS Split Rims wheel on a web site and you would be looking at £850 per Rim !!! I think if I recall correctly . I have fitted 18in BBS Classic from the Boxster on my 944T and running 225/40 18 Front and 265/35 18 Rear the rear wheels are 10inch and the 944 takes it well with no railing on the Motorway and drives fantastic , what you do is adjust the tyre pressures , not to inflated , I am running 35PSI all round and am happy with the drive , best of luck with your quest to find some nice wheels , PorschPart ask for Warren he's sound and wheel sort you out some top wheels ,I put some massive wheels on my every day Golf Gti but was really hard to drive down narrow streets !!! Best regards J.C

 

[333pg333]

Those wheels in the top picture are Kinesis on an '86 early offset with the additonal flared guards. I agree, nice looking. Problem is that the brand was bought out and I'm almost 100% sure they're made in China now and have been subject to a lot more breakages than when made in USA. Fikse are another similar looking brand that are still well respected. http://www.fikse.com/products.html

 

[J.C944TurboMan]

Here are some beautiful Split Rim BBS Alloy wheels £756 per Rim http://www.performancealloys.com/details.asp?procedure=wheel&id_wheels='BBS%20RR'&id_wheels_manufacturers='BBS'&id_wheels_sizes='18x8.5'&price='756'&permission=238038327 I would chew off my left hand for a set of these on my 944T !!! Still have my right hand important for internet use !!!
8.5J I would say they should fit nicely without wider arches , regards J.C