Will these fit?
- Thread starter DavidL
- Start date
rcsalmons
New member
I had M474 on my 944S (1988) a few years back. Definately larger springs and as I recall would not fit my S2 which replaced the S. Although they are rebound adjustable once fitted they are not. Adjustment is made by fully compressing and turning. They crop up on ebay now and again. I paid £250 for my set new and sold them for £275 as I recall. Rich
DavidL
Active member
Well someone has bought them and it wasn't me. Can't decide if I missed out or saved myself the hassle of finding extra bits when the car was apart and they wouldn't just drop on. Just to add the vendor thought put the 89 upper limit on as the M474 option was deleted after that so I suppose it is equally possible it was deleted as it wouldn't fit post 89 as, it turns out, the springs changed size?
TTM
Well-known member
The first car with the smaller springs was the S2 in 89, then this size of springs was carried over for the 90, 91 turbo and all 968 (talking non-M030 here). There was an optional M474 equipment for the S2 in '89 only, with specific struts designed to work with the smaller springs. M474 was not available anymore after 89 - if I remember correctly it was replaced with M757 in 90 and M031 in 91, both available for the S2 only. Last but not least there was no other suspension option than M030 for the 968. I did some charts some years ago summing this all up but a/ they were in french b/ I lost them when my hard disk crashed.
That goes some way to explaining it Thom. This is a far gnarleyer subject than I had realised and I admit to now being fairly confused, though was more so until the last post. I know Nick F fitted M474 to his S2. I don't know what year his car is, but I think it's '90. I think you saying Thom that M474 was offered only in '89 on the S2 but used a spring that was compatible with later S2 and '90-on Turbo? In that case (and based on another post above) there was also an option code M474 for pre-S2 NA cars that used the bigger spring diameter. No wonder it's confusing!
DavidL
Active member
The only problem I can see is that the Americans didn't have 944s past 89 did they? Certainly they didn't get the 250 se although they did get the S. It seems to be the ROW (as the yanks would call it) "run out models" - ie the last 3 years of production, where these springs changed.
Neil Haughey
New member
Only point to bear in mind when talking about the koni inserts is that this is definitely a modification. It is a part never fitted by Porsche to these cars and requires modification and rebuild of a strut that was never designed to be rebuilt. Any one contemplating the inserts should square this up with your insurance. The other options talked about IMHO have a definite advantage in being true OE parts, you could claim with M474 that you have just fitted Porsche's sport damper package. What Thom says seems to tally with what I found a couple of years back when looking at the S2 M474 package.
diabloam
New member
Hmmm, I am really confused now and concerned about what to get. I have sorned my 86'Turbo for the winter (always said I wasnt going to run her through the crappy winter up here in NW Scotland, but enjoyed her so much was loathe to stop driving her until late December) and am embarking on a pile of jobs (new cills etc). Anyway changed wishbones recently and was going to treat her to new suspension (think I am on originals at 92k) whilst car was off road. Have been looking at the options but worried I might order wrong type now. Think this is defo a subject for a sticky to clear things up, whose the guru who knows all the flavours these suspension set-ups come in as I am totally unsure now. From what I gather from this post I have earlier offset with no ABS, but have the alloy arms (knew that one already), with the larger diameter springs, but unique to the 86 model turbo hubs. Am I right or am I wrong. I reckon there should be a section in the 944 forum, with just the facts, so these topics do not keep repeating themselves. Anyway its good to have the knowledge off this forum, its helped me loads. By the way dont think these struts that were on ebay sold (one offer knocked back as far as I can make out) so they will probably be back on fleabay soon, cheers all.
TTM
Well-known member
Yes my friend, you got it. Since all S2 had the same smaller diameter springs, S2 M474 front struts can be fitted to a non-M030 S2 regardless of production years and also on 90, 91 turbo and 968 (again, talking about cars witout M030 here). To sum it up, there are 3 sorts of OEM springs : - M030 springs : serial equipment on '88 turbo S/SE, '89 turbo, optional equipment on all others. - smaller diameter springs : S2 regardless of year, '90/'91 turbo, all 968. - bigger diameter springs : 924S, 944 NA, 944 turbo 220 (M474 springs same size as "base" springs).
TTM
Well-known member
You are right. Tony makes an interesting remark about the thickness of the hub, however when I recently fitted KW V3 front struts on the '86 turbo of a friend I could not notice any difference in thickness with later hubs and they fitted fine. Since the KW V3 are primarily sold as struts for later cars (968 especially), I would therefore tend to believe that any '86 turbo can be fitted with struts made for late offset cars such as those for sale here - that's just a guess though!
They are light years ahead, but to quantify is subjective. I had rebuilt MO30s on my car with uprated springs and still the car was a useless pig. Now with much heavier spring rates, the ride is much better and the car is much quicker and safer. For sure it's a considerable cost and if you really don't drive the car much then you'd have to evaluate the expense vs improvement. Although you might find you drive it a lot more often if you did upgrade therefore justifying the outlay. There you go, simple and solved. [
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] It's a dilemma, when it's sitting in the garage I think £2k is too much dosh to spend on a road cars suspension, and when I drive on full boost in a straight line it feels great, then when I start really pushing it in the twisty stuff and the front runs wide it feels a load of rubbish, is it due to the 18 inch wheels, tired suspension or a combination of both ?, whatever it seems I'm either spending £1k on Koni's and anti roll bars or £2k on the KW's .
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[ORIGINAL: 333pg333They are light years ahead, but to quantify is subjective. I had rebuilt MO30s on my car with uprated springs and still the car was a useless pig. Now with much heavier spring rates, the ride is much better and the car is much quicker and safer. For sure it's a considerable cost and if you really don't drive the car much then you'd have to evaluate the expense vs improvement. Although you might find you drive it a lot more often if you did upgrade therefore justifying the outlay. There you go, simple and solved. [
] It's a dilemma, when it's sitting in the garage I think £2k is too much dosh to spend on a road cars suspension, and when I drive on full boost in a straight line it feels great, then when I start really pushing it in the twisty stuff and the front runs wide it feels a load of rubbish, is it due to the 18 inch wheels, tired suspension or a combination of both ?, whatever it seems I'm either spending £1k on Koni's and anti roll bars or £2k on the KW's .
Diver944
Active member
Have you had it recently aligned Paul? I know that even when mine was on worn out M030's it felt good and always neutral when pressing on, no understeer etc Maybe a slightly sportier setup with more negative camber at the front will tide you over until you really want to spend on new suspenders?
Hi Paul, Haven't had the geometry checked, I know it's important but I didn't want to pay for it twice, ie before I did the suspension and afterwards, I'm not sure how much of a job it is but £80 just to check it seems a bit steep, someone has had a play with the suspension on my car in the past, it's got different springs and it's been lowered, when it warms up outside I will take all the wheels off and try and determine what's been done, perhaps the torsion bars have already been reindexed and I can just slap the KW's straight on [
].
May be the same on the turbo then - but the pre ABS hubs on my 86 lux (alloy arms) were definately slightly wider - I know as the first job I did was to change the front struts and they didn't quite fit - I ground one out so it did and then the holes didn't quite line up, then I found I had the later units so exchanged the one I hadn't mangled and the 86 ones bolted straight on. Tony
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