220 Gutted

[Frenchy]

Soli, the new owner took the car yesterday and it overheated south of Birmingham on the M6, after speaking to him it sounds like the headgasket, he getting Tower Porsche in London to sort it, i am sending a headgasket and a new oil filter down to him to help offset costs.
His "specialist" car buying advisor has quoted that i must have known []
What i have said to Soli is that whilst i was doing the belts 2 weeks ago i would also have changed the HG if i thought it was suspect as i was half way there with things in bits, i also happened to have a spare HG available.
Seems he is fine with this.
Whatever the outcome it will fix, just a bit fed up that he has had a bad experience with what is really an excellent car, it was immaculate when he came for it, the oil and water was checked before he set off and was absolutely fine.
I even took off the filler cap to show him where the oil was to filled when checking and there was no mayo or anything untoward.
He filled it up with water and continued hope i just hope no further damage has occured.

 

[simkin911]

I'm sympathetic to both parties here and hope the outcome is okay for the car. Notwithstanding this, head gaskets fail. Clutches fail. Exhausts fall off. If the hg hasn't been changed on a car I go to see and it's a 20+ year old car I'm buying then any decision to purchase is made knowing that the hg needs to be changed.

Frenchy, your exemplary reputation (IMO) on the forum remains intact. These things happen.

Soli, good luck with Tower Porsche.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: Frenchy

Soli, the new owner took the car yesterday and it overheated south of Birmingham on the M6, after speaking to him it sounds like the headgasket, he getting Tower Porsche in London to sort it, i am sending a headgasket and a new oil filter down to him to help offset costs.
His "specialist" car buying advisor has quoted that i must have known []

This specialist would not happen to have the initials J.V would he? .

It is a shame has happened as it did sound like a cracking car. You never know, it could be something simple (an airlock for example).

 

[Frenchy]

JV (Vine) ? rings a bell, i have run 944's for 18 years and still do, i have told Soli that i have probably forgotten more than the knows about 944,s, HG deffo gone i would say he sent me a picture of the oil filler cap ginged up with mayo.
A friend saw one of his reports............bol*ocks nothing to the model specific, nowt that an AA/RAC inspection would tell you, which TBH is for complete no idea car buyers, taking the car for an MOT would work out cheaper inspection wise.

 

[robwright]

Knowing how well these cars run with HGs like collinders Frenchy I wouldn't lose any sleep mate. You wouldn't know until you know either by failure or actually changing it.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: Frenchy

JV (Vine) ? rings a bell, i have run 944's for 18 years and still do, i have told Soli that i have probably forgotten more than the knows about 944,s, HG deffo gone i would say he sent me a picture of the oil filler cap ginged up with mayo.
A friend saw one of his reports............bol*ocks nothing to the model specific, nowt that an AA/RAC inspection would tell you, which TBH is for complete no idea car buyers, taking the car for an MOT would work out cheaper inspection wise.

John Vine may indeed have been the name I was thinking of (and yes, I have seen one of the reports as well). As for the cap being ginged up with mayo, I thought they all did that (OK, maybe a light misting of mayo), especially on a car which has seen a lack of use (my Turbo stopped doing this when I used it longer than a few miles and that is a car on a fresh HG (to this day I have yet to top up the coolant), as did my S2 on both engines).

Either way, I hope this ends up at a happy medium for both buyer and seller.

 

[MartinRS2K]

Sorry to hear this Jim, I know how carefully you checked the car over before it left.

Not accusing Soli of anything, but from Whitehaven to Birmingham is over 250 miles and if the car has been driven aggressively after a while sat idle then this may have been the tipping point for the HG to fail especially as the car has only done low mileage in the last 18 months?

Either way I hope its a cheapish fix and he is back driving his new car quickly []

 

[PAUL RUDDY]

[]

 

[Suffolk944]

An honest sellers worst nightmare [&o] As others have said, sadly one of those things that occasionally happen and Caveat Emptor and all that with a private sale.

Sending the HG and Filter is a fine gesture and above and beyond what most would be prepared to do. That so called expert's opinion is not exactly helpful nor correct......

Hopefully the fix is a cheap one and Soli will be enjoying boooooost before very long. Those 220 cars are great - miss mine lots.

 

[soli]

Thanks a lot for all the replies everyone. Too bad it happened and just 4 hours after I bought it. And no, I wasn't driving aggressively at all. There was a bit of white smoke already in Cumbria on Jim's drive when we came back from our little tour. But I just put it down to a bit of condensation, thinking that if I am the only one picking it up, not Jim, then probably all is ok. I do hope its cheap. As someone here said, a 20+ year old car with 130k miles should have had already its HG changed, even if it is a "just in case". So I don't know how to think about this. The car looks great and definitely worth the money if everything is tip top. But if this ends up being expensive and causing other issues, I will be very sad :-(

 

[soli]

Just spoke to Tower Porsche. If it is only the HG then about £700. If it is the cylinder head as well, who knows? If it is just the heat exchanger could be less. I really hope it is not more as I have no more money left :-(

 

[944 man]

Twelve years ago, I started importing cars from Japan. I spent hours trawling through the auction reports and only had my man bid (using a computer, no one stands fume filled halls lifting a finger) on Grade 4 and better WRXs and GSR Evolutions and similar. I only ever sold performance cars like this to traders to avoid the endless engine failures that everyone else suffered from. It wasn't because the cars were weak or had inherent faults - it was the combination of 95RON fuel and 'bloody hell!'. Enthusiastic new owners grenade the engines of fresh strong cars with their enthusiasm for the new performance.

 

[Indi9xx]

OK, so the person who inspected it, who claims to be a professional did not spot that it had a head gasket on the way out, but the seller, being layman, is supposed to have known?

To be honest, once a head gasket properly fails on a 944 there is no way of covering it up and often no way he would have got to the end of the road without there being some impressive signs of its failure.... Or the other alternative is that if there were no signs and it took many more miles for it to show up, then it may have been weak, or even partially failed, but there is no way a layman should have known.. That inspector is a disgrace for saying that and just trying to cover his own ass!

My opinion is that the head gasket failed, and it is just as likely to fail just after someone has bought it as it was last tuesday or boxing day next year, there is no way to predict it, all these is are ways to prevent it, such as changing it every 10 years.. But honestly, how many people do that? I may recommend it to lots of people, but it is understandable that they don't just do it, because it isnt cheap to speculate and change a part which has no signs of failure.

Sounds like the new owner has been unfortunate and it seems like you have been really quite generous about offering some parts... And to be honest, if the buyer had come to me saying he had just bought the car without it having a failed head gasket, I would probably be recommending a head gasket is changed if he has no history of it being renewed recently.. So hopefully the new owner now can benefit from having a new head gasket without all the cost.

It is one of the benefits of buying from a dealer though, that no matter how the warranty is worded, unless the car is sold as spares or repairs, the dealer has to warranty the car for at least 3 months against not meeting expectations and working as advertised.. But on a private sale, once the money has changed hands, the buyer takes on all the risks.

Good luck to both parties and I hope the new owner gets some grin factor from an awesome car soon.

 

[MartinRS2K]

ORIGINAL: soli

Thanks a lot for all the replies everyone. Too bad it happened and just 4 hours after I bought it. And no, I wasn't driving aggressively at all. There was a bit of white smoke already in Cumbria on Jim's drive when we came back from our little tour. But I just put it down to a bit of condensation, thinking that if I am the only one picking it up, not Jim, then probably all is ok. I do hope its cheap. As someone here said, a 20+ year old car with 130k miles should have had already its HG changed, even if it is a "just in case". So I don't know how to think about this. The car looks great and definitely worth the money if everything is tip top. But if this ends up being expensive and causing other issues, I will be very sad :-(

Hi Soli

I wasn't accusing you of mistreating the car, but I recently collected a 944 Turbo S and did a 360 mile journey back home in it. I drove sensibly for most of the journey keeping a check on the gauges etc. but have to admit that I did have a play []with an Audi S4 and an Alfa Romeo Brera V6 north of Preston to see how the car went []

This car had been used more regularly than your new car so maybe fortune was on my side?

I hope the repair bill is small and you are out enjoying your car very soon []

 

[PAUL RUDDY]

I've known Frenchy for 30 years and he is one guy I would not hesitate to buy a used car from, he is as honest as the day is long and has a reputation locally for having the best cars and looking after them accordingly.

Unfortunately all cars no matter how well looked after will kick you in the balls, they are machines with parts that wear out, if mechanical items didn't break fitters like me would be out of work .........actually I am out of work []

You can only off set the chance of failure by a maintenance regime that will see you throwing perfectly good parts away, I've recently done the very thing with my S2 water pump , Hartech even said there's no problem with it but there was no history of a replacement, next year I will probably get the HG done as a precaution.

Soli, the car once sorted is one of the better ones, mechanical problems are far easier resolved than rotten bodywork and crap paint.

Cheers, Paul

 

[soli]

Guys, please this thread is getting a little bit silly. I will never say something like "the buyer takes all the risk" not from private or dealer sale and no matter who is layman and who is expert. We need to be able to trust people to a certain degree. I never said that Jim did anything wrong. I didn't bring an expert to the sale because I trust Jim and his expertise even though I am a complete layman. The expert opinion was just from a phone call. And I do know that the car, at least compared to everything else I saw, is in very good condition and well looked after. Yes Jim is nice to send me those parts and if I didn't trust he is acting in good faith I would have turned around and said "why would anyone have a GH lying around". But I didn't say that and I don't even think that. Jim was very kind to me all the way and very hospitable while I was at his place. As it stands I am out an extra £700 (at a minimum assuming nothing wrong with the head) which if I would have waited a couple of weeks before buying the car Jim would have born the cost / time to repair. So personally I would have offered to cover half. But that's just me. In any case now I just hope that £700 is enough to repair the car so I can start enjoying it.

 

[Eldavo]

There's nothing sinister in Jim having a HG kicking around trust me. I'd be more surprised if it was the only one he had, he has a gold mine of parts as he along with others on here (myself included) pick up odds and sods just because.

 

[Ex Skyline]

A perfect example of what I was trying to get across yesterday Jim'. If someone wants to buy a 25 year old car as a "Toy/Hobby"
then that person must be willing to accept total responsibility if something goes bang! Simples. [8|] I think you have been a
very good vendor by sending the parts to the new owner at your expense. A bit of bad luck for him sure but, "Big boys games/big
boys rules" and all that. We all know the score when buying an old vehicle (or should do) [].

 

[soli]

sorry to say but that is exactly the attitude which makes people not trust each other at all. big boy rules my ass. you really don't want to go there. this is not 6 months later. this is 4 hours later. i've been selling things for years from clothes to motorcycles and i never had this attitude. this is really starting to annoy me, even more than the car situation. so am getting off this thread. at the end of the day its between myself and Jim and our conscious. no one else. what a pointless discussion. not even one piece of advice. only nonsense.

 

[Hilux]

Unfortunately it is "caveat emptor" when buying privately.

There is no contract for services, its simply a change of owner.

I would never knowingly con someone, in fact the reverse, for when buyers see my vehicles having read comprehensive descriptions they always say its refreshing to find a car exactly as described which I am sure was the case above.

However I do always get a bill of sale signed by anyone who buy vehicles from me stating "that they are satisfied as to its present condition as seen, inspected and tested"