3.2 Dyno Day at Weltmeister Silverstone NOW MOVED to 20th August

ClubSport 911 · Jul 18, 2005

Hi Folks

I'm pleased to announce / organise a dyno day primarily for Carrera 3.2's / 964's / SC's at Weltmeister (WRC) nr. Silverstone. [

]

Date:- SAT 20th AUGUST - (MOVED from 13th)
Start time:- 9:00am
End Time:- 4:00pm..(it might go a little longer...)
Format:- 3 or 4 cars / hour (that's going some, BTW)
Lunch:- Allan and his team have a tame burger van that can be arranged on site - if we get 25 or more cars - to make sure we fill up with essential nutrients
Pricing:- FIXED £35 - please bring CASH - considering the capability of this set up, that's a good price.

Details.
Your car will have it's tyre pressures checked, along with it's oil levels (having first warmed up). Please make sure you get your car on the dyno, by doing your own checks prior to the event.

After that, it will be placed on the 2400HP Dyno Dynamics rolling road and very well secured.
Your car will then be run / cycled with a low load, until Chris is comfortable that the car is OK
You can monitor the car from outside the cell or sit inside - your choice [:-]
The Dyno will then be claibrated to start a full power run until the redline
This will be repeated until the same HP's are achieved across 2 runs or the HP stops climbing.
Your AFR will be measured (to see if you are running rich or lean)
You will recieve plots of M/HP and M/HP/Lambda [&:]
The cell is superbly set up for air-cooled cars - a huge air extraction system is supported by a ceiling fan blowing into the rear engine lid - perfect
Any 3.2 making more than 300HP gets 2 things (if they are normally aspirated) 1) A Hat from Alan... and 2) a million questions from the audience on how they did it. []

I think we'll get a maximum of 25-30 cars throughout the day, so please send me a PM (you can leave a message here, but the PM is best) to secure your place.

NOTE:- although primarily "3.2" day, SC's / 964's etc are very welcome

OK folks...over to you

P.S. - mail me here

LIST OF ATTENDEES

What Who[/b]

3.2 Carrera Steve Twinn
3.2 Carrera Andy Jones
3.2 Carrera CS Steve Darnell
3.2 Carrera CS Shirish Patel
3.2 Carrera Anil Patel
3.6 964 Rob Hounslow OPTIONAL
3.2 Carrera Joseph Lord
3.0 SC Ian Commerford
GT3 Tim Court
3.2 Carrera Roger Clarke
3.2 Carrera Steve Murley
GT3 Glenn McMenamin
993 Marc Brands
3.2 Carrera Coupe Paul Starkey
3.2 Carrera CS Alan Pole

mbrands · Aug 15, 2005

Hi !

If you have spaces to spare, can I bring my 993 along in the morning ?

Guest · Aug 16, 2005

Just ask the security guy at the main gate and he will tell you which way to Weltmeister.

ClubSport 911 · Aug 16, 2005

We do have spaces, and I will put you down. could you please mail me to confirm ? THANKS

Steve

ClubSport 911 · Aug 16, 2005

Thanks for posting the directions Shirish - appreciated

twinny · Aug 20, 2005

Steve - Just wanted to say what a top day! Well done mate for organising the whole event and making things go so smoothly, also helped us virgins understand what all the figures meant!

My old work horse managed 222.4 hp which for 18.5 years and nearly 150K miles I thought was not at all too bad.

Now, the only problem I have is I seemed to have developed a horse power virus at some time during the day. There is no known cure, but hot film conversions and re-maps are apparently able to control the fever!

Oh god another conservative use of company funds looks on the cards.

Cheers mate,

Steve

ClubSport 911 · Aug 20, 2005

I think this was a great day - thanks to Allan and Chris to giving up time and helping us work out what we're going to spend our money on next...

A few piccies to get the flavour

Marc's 993 (we'll let anyone in !) [

]

Shirish and his CS on the rollers.

Alan's excellent CS (well sorted suspension)

Jason's really creamy 968...(shame on you if you missed this)

On the rollers....AJ's 3.2 (Andy is now happy)

...and here is why !!

Hot Film - it work's on the 3.2 after all ! Joseph with the catch of the century and his (new) 3.2. Good luck to him - but with the power he was making, I think it's an interesting step up from his Fiesta [&:]

Nearly 250hp from a 3.2 with hot film, exhaust and re-map

What next ?

Guest · Aug 21, 2005

Thanks for organising the day Steve, I was very surprised at the power of my car. I think the conclusion on looking through the receipts was that my car has the exhaust, hot film, and SSI heat exchangers but no remap. In fact it could probably do with one as it was running rich at the top end, I don't know what chip is in there at the moment. Maybe I should put Optimax in next time too.

[EDIT] I've just found some information about the Autofarm performance kit on p85 of the April 2004 issue of GT Purely Porsche. Its got a photo of an engine bay with the same sort of kit as in mine. The kit includes "ECU upgrade, hot-film, BSA air filter and modified temperature sensor." There is also some exhaust options but I don't think that they are what is on my car. The kit is also available for 964s.[End EDIT]

Some people were surprised it had needed new calipers at as low a mileage as it had. Looking further back through the history it previously had turbo calipers on at one time and I think the new calipers were returning it to standard condition at about the same time as the wheels.

I'm sure I'll meet up with some of you again soon,

Joseph

Guest · Aug 22, 2005

Thanks, yes that looks like the kit. I'd better run on Optimax.

You weren't seeing things, that was the bill from Jasmine I think.

Joseph

Steve Murley · Aug 24, 2005

Hi Steve,
Thanks for organising the Dyno Day, I have always wondered what my 3.4 engine was producing, quite pleased with the 142.9BHP. I will post Dyno graph pics when I have them. keep thinking what can I do to it now, the Steve Wong chip route sounds good.
Cheers
Steve

Guest · Aug 24, 2005

Hopefully 242.9hp from te 3.4?

Anyting done to it other than displacement increase? Running on std exhaust? Was it Mahle "Max Moritz" pistons, Mahle "S" type pistons or JE pistons and what compression ratio?

Hope you don't mind me asking.

IanHighfield · Aug 24, 2005

Steve,

How did your CS shape up on the day with the revised mapping ?

Do you have a spreadsheet of results for the day - just interested.

Should have fuel tank back in soon so will be up for the next day.

Guest · Aug 24, 2005

Ian, don't ever test your car again. You have the strongest std 3.2 ever in the history of the world - you don't want to jinx it [

]

Steve said most of the 3.2s made the much more usual and expected 220-225hp. Steve had a small amount of detonation and stopped after the first run. He should make in the 240s when all is right.

I can't wait to get mine back on Friday with the engine now fixed.

IanHighfield · Aug 24, 2005

ORIGINAL: Richard Bernau

Ian, don't ever test your car again. You have the strongest std 3.2 ever in the history of the world - you don't want to jinx it []

I have the stainless sports silencer of unknown make, but came from Stuttgart Connection at allegedly £500-£600 (seems expensive, even if I did only pay £200 used). Would you expect 240bhp to come from that alone, or am I likely to have a revised ECU chip ?

Should I consider getting a Steve Wong or 911Chips ECU chip upgrade to take account of the exhaust change - just wondering ?

What was the matter with your motor ?

ClubSport 911 · Aug 25, 2005

Ian

My car made just 239 "and a bit" on the first run. As we all know, the 3.2 engine takes quite a few runs to heat up the combustion chamber to deliver max power (up to 6 or 7 is common, but Shirish's made about 10hp from one run to the next [&:]). On my next run at 5500rpm and over, sitting in the car, we detected just the merest fragment of pre-ignition (detonation is something else - I had that last time)

Interestingly, there is probably a reason why:-

Low on fuel, I re-tanked with BP Ultimate - a 97RON fuel. I usually use 98RON Optimax but filled up as part of a deliberate experiment.

The fuels are completely different and in my e-mail discussions with BP, I have learned a lot about how different cars react to the different manufacturers fuels. As you know, I have invited 2 top scientists / researchers from BP to come and talk to Region 10 (MK and Northants) in September - see the post here - with a view to understanding more about the stuff we dump in our fuel tanks.

Also, the pre-ignition was most likely made worse by the leaning out Steve W dropped in to the map over 5500rpm. Lean mixtures run hotter, so the margin for error is further reduced. Richening will cool the flame front helping delay the onset of pre-ignition. When all is fixed (i.e. richened up, Optimax etc) and with a few of the "pre-heating" runs into the engine, I'm expecting ~245hp

Then...we will move to a revised exhaust.

Ian - coming to your exhaust / excllent results, your car made very good power (as did Josephs) and I actually wonder if it hasn't already been re-mapped ? All the 3.2's were roughly in the same area on Saturday so perhaps (to help me sleep at night) you might open up your DME to lay this one to rest !

Kind Regards

Steve

IanHighfield · Aug 25, 2005

Steve,

Never been there, but will open it up this weekend and pop a photo on this thread for someone to id.

Steve Murley · Aug 25, 2005

Hi Richard,
Sorry typo error there, should have been 242.9 BHP, apart from the 3.4 piston set, it has sports cams, SSI's,
Sport exhaust box, re-map and modified air box. Unfortunately the complete engine rebuild was carried out in Germany so the bills do not say what make of pistons and cams have been used and I have no details of compression ratio. Car was stripped out and fitted with Strosek front and rear bumpers and various other mods.

Cheers
Steve

Steve Murley · Aug 25, 2005

My car on the dyno, could'nt resist a picture.

Steve

Guest · Aug 25, 2005

Steve M,

That's a very interesting car you have! With all the engine work, I would think you have a lot of hp still on the table. By comparison, a known 3.5 litre rebuild of a US 3.2 with Mahle high compression pistons, 964 cams, twin plug ignition, headers and extrude honed intake is making 246hp at the wheels - or about 280+ flywheel horsepower. Now, you are 150cc down on displacement, have slightly less optimal size headers and intake manifold and no twin ignition. Your cam being unknown is also a wild card but unless it has a lumpy idle, it is probably no more aggressive than a 964 cam. I would think 250-260hp is quite possible from your car with better mapping. Did you get AFRs from Weltmeister?

By comparison, I made 243 and a bit with a euro engine running 993 Supercup cams, SSIs and low restriction muffler. Mine had done about 1100 miles since rebuild and is yet to be mapped. Whether or not it has any impact on hp, I don't know, but it had also destroyed most of its valve stem seals since the rebuild and has since had the heads off again and further machine work completed to remedy that problem. It would be interesting to see what hot film adds as it is only supposed to add a little, often described as icing on the cake once you have done a bunch of other things, like 5-10hp max. It would be nice to know the full story on Joseph's car but tentatively, you might conclude that once you have freed up the exhaust side with SSIs or similar, it is the intake that is holding things back. Anyone want to do a group buy on 46mm PMO carbs or Jenvey ITBs? [8D]

RB

Steve Murley · Aug 25, 2005

Hi Richard B
The car does have a bit of lumpy idle, but I have always put that down to something else effecting it that I have'nt been able to find, its bit jerky on a light throttle as well, it needs setting up properly really. My car had large diameter headers on when I got it, but they were rusty and I needed some heat last winter, so changed to the early 73-74 style heat exchangers, not very big diameter tubing, I did'nt notice any performance differences but I am sure they're restrictive. 250 to 260 sounds nice. 46mm PMO carbs sounds good as well, trouble is the wallet is
restrictive just like my exhaust
Sorry, what do you mean by AFR's,
I have read about your car on this and other forums, sounds pretty good, shame about valve seals, do you know what caused the problem and has it all been put back together now. Who will you used to do the re-mapping.

Cheers
Steve