Menu toggle

422BHP from 944 Turbo - discuss

Diver944

Active member
Those of us on the Titanic forum will have seen Andrew Sweetenhams latest results for his much modified Turbo monster. After fitting a MAP kit and a rolling road session with Wayne from Chipwizzards, they saw 422 BHP [:eek:][8D][:D]

The trouble is Titanic has been sporadic the past few days and I'm dying to talk about it with someone, anyone? [&:]

This is more power than a current 996 Turbo (without X pack) and the 944 weighs significantly less and has 50/50 weight distribution.

Now where is my credit card [:-]
 
Bet its not slow!! Mind you really would have to do something with the gearing like add another 10 teeth to the final drive!! Wheelspin in 5th anyone!!

300 will do me fine.... Ok ok 350 would be nice [:D]
 
I think the standard gearing hits the redline in 5th at true 171mph (As reported from a dyno test), but with 422bhp you would get there pretty quick - if the tyres were still in one piece
 
and I'm dying to talk about it with someone, anyone?

Well as you are desperate.

It does look sickeningly good on the face of it, and potentialy very good value.

For those of us with Guru upgrades the MAP2 kit has got to be IRO ÂŁ800-900 or a total spend of ÂŁ1100 for up to +100 bhp. When you consider that the DPW/Wayne route was ÂŁ1000/1200 (dependent on how you calculated it) for 30-50 bhp, I think we have a lot to thank Danno for.

I went to the Guru site this evening and I'm assuming Andrew's kit and Danno's are one and the same.

Having devastated the Beaky budget recently I'm in a position of sitting on the side lines at the moment. I want to spend some money on doing track days rather than blowing it all on making the car better and then not being able to enjoy it - if that makes sence.

I have been discussing this issue with Rick, who has gone the MAF route (or at least will when he gets the bits) in prefferance to MAP. Apparently, he had a few chummies who totaled Cossies in the past trying out new kit and is consequently sticking with tried yank practice. If, as I'm assuming above, Andrew's kit is just a Danno import then we shouldn't end up as Beta testers and this shouldn't be an issue.

As another though:-

In the wet, and on anything but the nicest of surfaces Beaky is now quite a handfull [:)] If one was to consider giving him another 50 bhp to play with I think he could become almost too exciting.
When I started racing the were two of us with 1300 engines, pushing 100 bhp if you were lucky, all the rest had 50-100 bhp more. I came 10th overall in my first year, out of 30+ regular competitors, mainly because many of the others would throw themselves at the scenery.

Power is great. Being able to p122 on most cars on the road is very satisfiying but, lets face it, to demonstrate the fact you end up in serious spontainious licence loss territory. When you come to driving round corners, too much happy peddle and you have the back end going evey which way including loose and again into some dangerous territory.

I'm not whimping out here but, if I recal Mr Clarkson's article in the Sunday times, he was saying how much fun he had in the new Fiat Panda. It wasn't fast, in fact it was pedestrian, but it did 30 mph with gusto a verve. You could have fun, crash a Panda, and live. If you push the limit of a Mega Turbot and it goes wrong, they will be looking for bits to pack in the box for weeks after.
 
I'm not sure that it is the Guru kit. I think Andrew posted that Wayne has developed it. I notice that Wayne has been posting in the 3.2 forum on here, I hope he pops in here and gives us his thoughts.

Though the peak figures are amazing I am hoping that the main benefit will be throttle response and reducing lag even more. Getting rid of the standard 'barn door' air fuel meter and replacing it with a MAP kit should do that.

I agree that I am already at my max of my power to skill level ratio, and need to work on my abaility before I start going down the max power route, but it is nice to know that there are UK tuners now working on these products for my old girl. Reliability and driveability are very important to me.
 
You might be right about the bespoke Wayne chip set, though I wonder where the original settings came from. [;)]

Whilst I can see how bigger power can be arrived at by dumping the infernal barn door, claims do seem a little exagerated. When you consider both MAF & MAP should have the same effect, as both get rid of the inlet restriction, I don't recal Fen making claims to monster power hikes.

It is all so tempting though. The other thing to consider, while you are about it, is to swap to a stage II intercooler. It isn't going to give as much as the MAP swap, but could demonstrate a further significant hike.

Whilst easy to spend as a shopping wish list, if you consider how much you would have to spend to buy a car with an aquivalent power to weight ratio, the humble Turbot is damn good value again.
 
ORIGINAL: Diver944

I think the standard gearing hits the redline in 5th at true 171mph (As reported from a dyno test), but with 422bhp you would get there pretty quick - if the tyres were still in one piece

Would 422 bhp be enough to get you to 171 mph? IIRC the power required to push a body through the air increases dramatically as the speed increases. I have little doubt that I have a formula for the ratio hidden away in some book or another some where. It would be interesting to work out what power would be required to push a Turbot to 171.
 
I've only been awake 8 hours [:D] (nightshifts again)

I think the standard top speed at 250bhp is 161, so surely 422bhp would be enough to reach the redline in 5th. Not that we are interested in these headline figures are we? [;)]
 
Absolutly no problem to get 171 in 5th, with that kind of power, with the right gearing i recon it would be over the 190mark. Have a look at the top speed of standard Carrer 177mph with 316bhp. The 944T must be atleast as slippery with poss. a lower frontal area. I think a standard guru chip kit would get you pretty close to redline in 5th... Not that i will be trying. Hit *35 trying to out drag a CL600 today, bugger got passed me, but only just, will have to hurry up and get those chips fitted. [:D]
 
ORIGINAL: hawkhead

A map will not give +100bhp and I don't recall Andrew suggesting it would ?


"....But a standard 944 Turbo (220bhp) should achieve see a of 50%-60% improvement in torque and a 40%-50% improvement in BHP. On a 250bhp model - this could be 370lbft torque and 350bhp! (Both using Level 1)...."


Looks a bit like 100 bhp to me. [;)] OK not +100 bhp, but only .00000000001 bhp short of +100 bhp [:D]
 
John, apples and oranges

A MAP alone (which is what Andrew has recently done) will give about 30-50bhp

The level 1 KIT consists of Filter, Adapter, MAP controller, chips, FPR & AccuBoost
 
Absolutly no problem to get 171 in 5th, with that kind of power, with the right gearing i recon it would be over the 190mark.

I've not done the calcs for a 944 but:-

Based on a car weighing 2500 lbs, with a frontal area of 21 square feet and a .35 Cd the following was arrived at

140 mph 176 bhp
150 mph 215 bhp
160 mph 258 bhp
170 mph 307 bhp

It would seem that 422 bhp would be good to redline in 5th but, I would respectfully suggest, a Guru chip ain't.

The above figures were taken from www.pumaracing.co.uk/topspeed.htm
 
You are all missing 2 crucial features of Andrew's car (over, say, mine with the MAF) - 300cc and a bigger turbo.

Mine made "comfortably over 300bhp" on Bob Watson's rollers (it actually spun its wheels every run at 4,800 rpm and 280bhp) - extrapolating the plot it would have been in the 320-330 range. Unfortunately we couldn't do a before figure because the head gasket was blown so I don't know the increase. I have always been of the opinion that that figure was low. Low because it's realistic or low because Bob's rollers are overly conservative I don't know. TBH I have always been slightly sceptical of the claims made for the BE etc. figures.

It didn't feel faster to drive, but that was because it was soooooo smooooooooth - even less peaky than the S2 (which kicks at 4,000 rpm for those who don't know). On a road I know well it would be carrying 15-20mph more than before at braking points after a 300m straight - nearly had it in the hedge the first time because I didn't realise (ABS, swearing, sweaty palms). An Elise driving friend having a go of it came into a bend on the A24 outside Dorking at 125mph, thinking he was doing about the 90mph that felt quick enough in the Elise. Obviously it would be quicker than an Elise (a Mk2 with sports pack = 160bhp IIRC and much lighter than a 250T with two big blokes in it) but he was blown away by how much quicker.

If you're after driveability then a MAF gets you it - basically my car had a MAF and a 46mm TiAL wastegate that holds a mild amount of extra boost to the redline (1.01bar) otherwise it was just a strong standard engine with a rebuilt top end and a recon turbo. MAP wasn't available when I bought my MAF but I question how much difference MAP makes over MAF - some but much, much less than MAF over standard flap AFM would be my guess.

I must admit I'm quite excited to get mine together and then blow 2004's bonus on a bigger turbo, bigger injectors, bigger IC and a Link2...
 
I didn't miss the bigger turbo (or the displacement), I did the compressor map calcs for Andrew. TBH that is where most of the HP is coming from, that and the bigger injectors which allow the correct AF ratio.

Fen are the figures from your old setup wheel or flywheel bhp ?
 
99% sure they're flywheel figures calculated from the wheel figure off the rollers. I can't find the plots to check.

I need to learn to read compressor maps so I know I'm buying the right turbo when the time comes. How much do you think the 300cc contributes?
 
ORIGINAL: John Sims

I've not done the calcs for a 944 but:-

Based on a car weighing 2500 lbs, with a frontal area of 21 square feet and a .35 Cd the following was arrived at

140 mph 176 bhp
150 mph 215 bhp
160 mph 258 bhp
170 mph 307 bhp

It would seem that 422 bhp would be good to redline in 5th but, I would respectfully suggest, a Guru chip ain't.

The above figures were taken from www.pumaracing.co.uk/topspeed.htm


Think the cd for tha 944 is 0.32.

So you dont think you could get 300+ bhp from the guru chip + accuboost running at 15psi?

I was hoping to have about 330bhp with thats and a new wastegate + deCAT exhaust. I think thats about the limit for the standard injectors so i have read.
 

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Back
Top