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5th Gear - 200mph challenge

Anyone delved deep enough to see how the CdA's compare - I would have thought that a low 2+2 must have a lot less overall drag than a 4 door saloon.

The key would be not just to increase power, but also lower the drag - I think Fens car has several "additions"? are these going to increase or decrease the drag - presumably most body kits will increase stability / downforce at the expense of extra drag.

There must be some engineers who have the calculus available to nail down how much power is required to push a certain amount of drag to 200mph?

I'd turn up to watch [:)]
 
ORIGINAL: sawood12

The Sierra Cosworth Hatchback may have a CD of 0.34 but the one on 5th Gear was a Sapphire which would have a much worse CD. And it still had the daft boot spoiler and wing mirrors attached and the engine was driving a power-sapping 4-wheel drive transmission. The more I think about it the easier it seems - provided you've got the time and money to spend on such a project!! If all else fails you could always transplant the engine from a Cossie into the 944.

VBH was clearly cra**ing herself when she attempted the high speed runs in the Aston, I reckon she bottled it. It certainly wasn't the casual single handed stylee adopted by Mark Shead in the Cossie.

Yes but that cossi had nearly 800bhp!!

The 2l cossi engine is a better engine than the porsche 2.5l.

 
Those of us who frequent Titanic will remember this very discussion we had earlier this year when 5th Gear first strarted their ill fated Lotus project. There is a 944T owner who plans to try cracking 200mph with a 2.8 litre conversion.

We calculated back then that if he kept the standard gearbox ratios, raised the rev limit to 6900 rpm but fitted narrower higher profile tyres to the rear wheels (245/55ZR17) then the car would have a theoretical top speed of 202.6 mph

It was also agreed that it would need an awful lot of power to get there within two miles. The Pistonhead boys have been trying this with modified GT2s for a couple of years now and are still a few mph short with cars comfortably over 500bhp

The calculation tools can be found here:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/trans-01.htm
 
Why did they attempt it on a runway? I saw another 5th gear when they tried to get a Bently GT up to 200mph (and succeeded I think) round a oval.

Surely thats how to do it, not just blast down a straight and hope for the best which is basically what they did. Or is that too sensible an approach?

Mind you looking at what they did I think I have answered my own question.
 
Not sure how accurate the numbers are HERE , but it states that a 924 GTR with 375 BHP has a top speed of 199mph...
 
Re the Bentley its has 550 bhp and cant be that aerodynamic bearing in mind frontal area so if it can do 200 + it must be possible with a 944T The gearing may be the problem a sixth gear would help!
 
The 959 nearly managed 200mph with 450 bhp (i think top speed was 197??) but the engine would have developed more torque at those power levels. Maybe that is the problem with the 944, not being able to achive the required torque to drive the ratios at that speed.

What made the Cossie engine so much better that a 944's? Can't ever remember a std Sierra being praised for it's engine and it's 'only' the cylinder heads that are Cosworth. Was is simply the fact it was 16v or something more fundamental with it's core design?
 
In accordance to Jez;

This was taken after their final run for 200mph!!

AD28E909BB0B41998306BFE4926E0C90.jpg
 
ORIGINAL: sawood12

I was thinking about this earlier today. What would you have to do to get a 944 to break the 200mph barrier? Obviously the multitude of engine mods often discussed on this forum would be required but what about the gearbox to get the ratios? would it be possible to mod the engine to get it upto 8k rpm (bigger bearings, lighter reciprocating parts) and I suppose you would have to loose the door mirrors, windscreen wipers and tailgate spoilers and use a bit of gaffer tape on the panel gaps to minimise drag? Would it be possible to get an N/A 944 over 200mph whilst retaining the bulk of the original engine (i.e. not taking the easy option and replacing with a V8)?

You wouldn't try to get the engine to rev higher. You would fit a taller final drive ratio in the diff. You would also need a lot more power than a standard car provides.

The fastest I have ever driven was 190mph (on an, ahem, private test track on the continent) in a TVR Cerbera 4.5. That was red line in top gear, but I doubt whether it would have gont much quicker with a 6th gear. If you managed to get hold of a higher final drive for the transmission and wound the wick up on your turbo to somewhere in the region of 400BHP, I think the car would manage it from that point of view.

The main thing that you need to worry about, rather than just how much power you need to get to that speed, is how the aerodynamics of the car will work at speeds well in excess of what the car was ever designed for. People always talk about removing boot spoilers to reduce drag, but you might actually need one to keep the back end of the car on the ground. On the other hand, you would probably want to put a splitter on the front to stop the front end lifting. The last thing that you want when you're travelling at well over 3 miles a minute is for the physics gremlin to raise his ugly head and throw you off the road, as at that sort of speed they would be identifying you from the stain on what was left of your underwear.

When I started racing my Ultima, I was advised by a fellow racer never to remove the rear spoiler, as the back end would lift off at high speeds if I did. When the first owner wanted to take a GTR over 200MPH, the factory actually took one of the factory cars to a wind tunnel to run a load of checks to see how the aerodynamics of the car should be set in order to do it safely.

James

PS. Good luck whoever tries it first.
 
ORIGINAL: jez_anderson

Why did they attempt it on a runway? I saw another 5th gear when they tried to get a Bently GT up to 200mph (and succeeded I think) round a oval.

Surely thats how to do it, not just blast down a straight and hope for the best which is basically what they did. Or is that too sensible an approach?

Mind you looking at what they did I think I have answered my own question.

That's even more dangerous. You've got a LOT of sideways loading on the tyres trying to take a corner at 200mph. You'll very quickly overheat your tyres. Tiff tried this a few years ago ropund the MIRA oval in a McLaren F1. He was aiming for an averave lap speed of 200mph. He almost made it, but he also almost killed himself, as the tyres were within an ace of failing when he came in.

I know that somebody will say "but IRL and Champ cars do it all the time. However, they aren't road cars, and they have very special tyres, which you wouldn't be able to get to fit your 944 [:)]
 
For the money they spent in total, about 55 grand.....they could have bought a Ruf Yellowbird. Hey presto.......213 MPH.

The issue of doing it on a runway or not is valid. They should have gone to Ehra Lessen or whatever it's called, the VW test track, the Mac F1 did 240 MPH there, I suppose the Veyron did 253 there as well.

At Vmax, Adam T's Yellowbird only hit 200 mph once or twice at Brunters, despite being capable of 213 MPH, the runway just isn't long enough. My 993 RS only 158 MPH when I should think it could do about 168 MPH (with 348 BHP but big wings).
 
On a completely different tack.

I'm still wearing my Le Mans camping pass with pride...how am I going to get the dam thing off anyway????????
 
I used a half razor blade to scrape off the tabs of glue left behind. A new stanley knife blade also does the trick.

Have a box of plasters standing by [:eek:]
 

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