944 S2 belts question

[dlknight]

Hi Xenon,

It wasn't cheap and around £1000 IIRC to put right after the failure.

Regarding rust see the other thread, but your more than likely to see rust at the rear of the sills and bottom of the front wings ocassionally to. I had both sills and both front wings replaced on my 944S which cost around another £1000 including paint and labour. Was a very good job and I think a few members had a similar job done for less $$$.

If you give us a shout when you spot a car or if you already have one in mind, see if any close members can take a look and give you an opinon.

Regards

Dave K.

 

[xenon]

I have one in mind in the Coventry area. I've been to see it and checked the areas one would on any other car. I'll try removing the bung (bottom of the B pillar?) and shining a torch into the cills. Certainly when I knocked on them from the outside they felt very solid. Didn't specifically look at the bottom of the wings (I will if I go back) but there was no exterior bubbling there or anywhere else.

Whilst I'm on (and I apologise in advance for asking questions that have been asked before or may be in a FAQ - I'm a moderator on the BMW forum and I know how annoying it is when people don't seem to search [&:])

Is there anything (other than belts) that benefits from regular checking? (other than engine oil & stuff) - e.g. if anyone was going to look at an E46 BMW you would advise them to check or change the front suspension bushes which are a weak spot. Any 944 weak spots I need to know about?

Thanks everyone.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Diver944
People are jumpy because they do break and when they do you are looking at the possibility of several thouand pounds to rebuild the engine. In my 8 years of anorakness with 944s I am guessing I hear about 3-4 belt failures every year via Titanic or UK forums, and that's just in our small online community []

You cannot keep comparing this to a Golf engine as there are over 24 million Golfs made to date (Google figures in 2005), but there were a total of 160 thousand 944s. If a Golf engine dies and can't be rebuilt you can pop down to your local scrappy and probably have a choice, not the same with a 944 engine (as I know from experience [8|])

Yes we go on about belts all the time but for most people if their belts break it will be time to throw away the car and we are all here to try and stop that happening

Paul,

Fair points all. I guess a little over-caution never killed anyone (or ruined any engine, come to mention it.)

I guess I am not looking closely enough at the consequences of a belt break; I had one go on a 16v Golf I owned once, and did exactly as you said - popped down to the local breakers and bought a replacement engine. Very easy. And fitting it was an afternoon's job, with a friend, one warm May afternoon (with beer.) I guess that getting a new lump into the front of a 944 isn't quite that easy either ...

Caution noted. I'll stop being so blase.


Oli.

 

[Robert Edwards]

I suppose this matter never really goes away. Years ago I sold a rather ratty Aston to a German psychopath (heavy metal etc,) and he brought his rather shifty-looking mechanic with him. well, the deal was done, but as soon as he got the car round the corner his mechanic opened the bonnet, whipped off the timing cover and started messing about with the chain tensioner. Result? start up, bang! I came across them just afterwards and the bloke wanted his money back! I interrogated the unhappy pair and it transpired that the mechanic (who claimed a track record in these matters) had heard that Aston timing chains needed careful attention.

But it's the same with 2.3 Merc Cosworths, I have learned - in all ways a brilliant piece of work but, given that they will rev to 7200 and do not have a duplex chain then the risks are obvious. I used to have a Merc 6.3 (back in the days when 8 to the gallon was perfectly respectable) and when the chain gave out on that (at some speed) it was the crack of doom.

The shock travelled from the crank (bearings knocked out) through the gearbox (bizarrely OK) to the propshaft (bearings also KO'd) ) into the diff, which just blew up. I ended up backwards on the Almondsbury interchange in a somewhat confused state of mind. The car was scrap. Out of curiosity I took the engine apart and believe me when I tell you that it was a perfectly horrible sight. X-rated...

So take it seriously but there's no need to lose sleep over it - if you keep a reserve in hand and stick to the 30K/4 year rule, then the result should be serenity. But if not, then it is not just the engine which is at risk.

But this applies to all cars...

 

[xenon]

Which begs the question as to why a duplex chain wasn't specified at the beginning.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: xenon

... I'm a moderator on the BMW forum ...

Right lads, he's a BMW-boy! Fair game for anything, so how about feeding him some live maggots while flushing his head down the bogs? (Only kidding Xenon, be welcome!)

ORIGINAL: xenon

Any 944 weak spots I need to know about?

There are various buying guides around, but the biggies on an S2 are the cam chain and cam belt and tensioners/rollers and rust. While it's easy to spot a dying belt (it's old, or has done lots of miles), the chain is a more difficult one to spot. Look carefully at the service records to see when it was last changed, as if it is worn then it can cause premature wear on the sprockets on the cams, and that is expensive!

Big jobs that cost alot also include the clutch, so find out how old that is. Changing it is an expensive job as it takes a long time.

Brakes are worth a mention. The calipers are cast alloy, and have spring steel plates bolted to them as pad guides. The resulting electrostatic cell causes premature corrosion of the alloy under the plates, leading to the dreaded "plate lift" - the corrosion builds up and makes the plates rise up by a couple of mm, which means the pads don't move smoothly and are hard to change. Sorting this out costs a bit under £100 a corner, and it's worth checking to see when this was last done and what state the calipers are in.

CV's can go, but these aren't expensive or difficult to change.

Worth looking to see how much life the pads and disks have.

Suspension can be difficult. 944's have good balance, and hence can hide very worn suspension. Mine is 19 years old and has 125k on the clock, and yet is (as far as I can tell) on the original dampers. They are, logically, past it, although the car drives fine and passes MOT's fine. I am in the process of changing them, as I know there is improvement there to be had ... same with suspension bushes.

Engines - the usual applies. Oil usage, smoke on start-up, rough running etc etc etc are all not good. Tappets at the top of the engine can get a little musical, which is not necessarily a problem if they quieten down quickly after startup. Check the history to make sure that the oil has been changed often, and the filter.

There was a hoo-ha on here about fuel lines rusting about a year ago. At the back of the car, where they go over the rear axle, they can rust, and this can be either a very expensive and difficult job to sort out, or a quick and easy one. However no-one has asked about this for a while. It's still worth checking on a potential purchase.

There are various buying guides around which are worth reading, but I think these are the major points. Others who know much more will be along soon to correct me ...

A pre-purchase inspection is always a good idea. Either ask someone who knows these cars well to come along to help (and buy them beer), or take it to a good indie and pay a couple of hundred quid.

An interesting point to muse on is that made by Baz Hartech, that these cars often need an expensive 'birthday' at around 15-18 years old. Lots of parts come to the end of their life about this time, and fixing them is pricey. BUT, once fixed, the car then has another 15-18 years of life in it. Buy a car which has had as many of these bits sorted out as possible.


Oli.

 

[xenon]

I know on the car that I'm looking at that the belts are recent (don't know about chain though) and that the discs and pads are new. Also, the calipers have been stripped, had new seals, and then been powder coated, so they look brand new. Clutch was done in November last and has done 8000 miles.

 

[Robert Edwards]

ORIGINAL: xenon

Which begs the question as to why a duplex chain wasn't specified at the beginning.

Eventually, it was, on the late 2.3s and all the 2.5s. But the 2,3 is lovely and feral and a much more British engine, if you know what I mean...

 

[xenon]

No, I meant why was it never fitted on the Porsche 16v engine?

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: xenon

I know on the car that I'm looking at that the belts are recent (don't know about chain though) and that the discs and pads are new. Also, the calipers have been stripped, had new seals, and then been powder coated, so they look brand new. Clutch was done in November last and has done 8000 miles.

Xenon,

Sounds like it's had a lot of stuff done which is good news. It also sounds like a fairly looked-after car, which is also good.

Do you have a link to the advert? Also, how much are they asking for it?


Oli.

 

[xenon]

This is the advert:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/193501.htm

 

[Robert Edwards]

ORIGINAL: xenon

No, I meant why was it never fitted on the Porsche 16v engine?

Doh!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: xenon

This is the advert:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/193501.htm

That looks like a pretty tidy one.

Get it looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at before buying tho'. I'm sure someone on here will be able to help.


Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

This is the advert:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/193501.htm

Just spoken to the seller and put a deposit on it....[][][][]

Only joking, but it does look worth a punt as long as everything in the ad is true, and the body is good.

With 125k it should have had the chain and tensioner replaced by now, so check the history. If it's not been done, get it checked by a specialist to advise on the cam condition.

It's often been said that you should keep £1k in reserve to allow for the inevitable things you will find wrong with any older car. Bear that in mind when it's first serviced, never forget that you're buying one of the best cars ever made for the price of a Perodua Nippa and you'll not go far wrong.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

This is the advert:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/193501.htm

Perodua Nippa

BLASPHEMER!
Mods, please remove these offensive and hateful words. I am struggling to breathe while they are on my screen! I can feel my blood pressure rising!! And I thought this was a nice, safe, family-orientated place! How can you expect people to maintain any form of focus while this sort of thing is going on in public!

(Damn. Paul IS a mod ... )


Oli.

 

[xenon]

Body certainly *looks* good, I'll check by removing the bung when I go back.

The chain might very well have been done - I only scanned the history for belts, rollers and tensioners. As the belts were done at an OPC perhaps they changed / checked the chain too.

No more deposits please [8|] Does the price seem about right?

 

[zcacogp]

OPC is less likely to have checked the chain than an indie, as the cam chain was never part of the 944 service schedule. (Which is one reason why it is so often overlooked.)

An indie is more likely to go 'off-schedule' than an OPC, IMHO.

Sorry to be negative.

ETA: Price - don't know. My guess is that it seems to be on the high side, but that is to be expected if it is a really good car. And you get what you pay for. (I think that the market for S2's is splitting - duffers are dropping in values fairly noticably, whereas good examples are getting stronger and stronger in value.)

Oli.

 

[xenon]

Weird that it's not scheduled. There's a whole load of indy stuff in the receipts box too - I'll have a look. Near to me (Coventry) there is a big independent dealer linked to Autobahn Porsche. I'll ask them what they'll charge for checking / replacing the chain. They told me a full belt job would be £300. Anyone suggest a reasonable price for the chain?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: xenon

Body certainly *looks* good, I'll check by removing the bung when I go back.

The chain might very well have been done - I only scanned the history for belts, rollers and tensioners. As the belts were done at an OPC perhaps they changed / checked the chain too.

No more deposits please [8|] Does the price seem about right?

Price is pretty fair based on the ad. I've never seen a car that is as good in the flesh though!

OPC will probably not have done the chain etc., it's not a service item. I guess Porsche never expected owners to be using the OPC network after a few years! If it's not been done, then you've got a good negotiating point....[8|]

Bear in mind that if the cams are worn the bill will be big, so negotiate big!

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Mods, please remove these offensive and hateful words. I am struggling to breathe while they are on my screen! I can feel my blood pressure rising!! And I thought this was a nice, safe, family-orientated place! How can you expect people to maintain any form of focus while this sort of thing is going on in public!

Sorry Oli, I was only using the comparison to a Perodua Nippa to make a point with a comic twist. Please realise that any offense was completely intentional...[]

Actually it was a bad analogy as the Nippa is actually a very good car....probably a good alternative if you can't find a good 944. [8|]

will he rise to it, wil he rise to it.....[]