944 S2 - track use

[Globe_911]

first of all I' mnew to the forum so hi! Just bought a 944 S2 (the 911 in my sig is my dads) for £3700. It's in lovely condition, 110k, nice interior, no rust etc so hopefully was a good buy []

we bought it to use on the track so the interiors all coming out and was looking for some advice on what mods to do.

first of all what are the best seats to put in? been told that the Cobra Monacos aren't great but they seem to be quite common second hand (which is preferable for me due to price). 4 point harnesses should be fine for track days I assume? also going to put a roll cage in but want it to be as unobtrusive as possible really so wheres best to look for one?

Thinking about seeing how it goes on the track before making and mods to increase power but I'm assuming easiest mods for this would be a chip (ProMax do one) but what other simple relatively cheap power increases are there?
cheers, Thomas

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Thomas, and welcome!
Sounds like a great project. []
For seats I have Cobra Imola's as they're reasonably priced, light and comfortable, but I'd suggest sitting in as mnay different ones as you can before choosing.
As for other mods I'd recommend ignoring the engine and concentrate on weight reduction, tyres, brakes and suspension as it'll make far more difference to speed than power. Go for the stickiest tyres you can, Toyo's T1-Rs would be my recommendation for an all year round design. Toyo 888's are a bit more extreme by all accounts (haven't fitted mine yet) and slicks would be the ultimate (and they will fit inside the car so you can swap wheels over if you're driving there).
There are numerous recommendations for pads, Performance Friction are highly recommended by others, I've not tried them but use Porterfields and love them. Make sure you put the best brake fluid in, braided hoses are the icing on the cake but not critical.
There are loads of options for suspension but none are exactly cheap, but if you want a taster of the car as standard get the geometary checked, and consider running more -ve camber. If the suspension hasn't been setup recently expect a big difference in handling.
I'd definately recommend uprating the ARB's too, but these can probably wait until you've got your head around what the car is doing after a few outings.

I hope to see you at a track day soon (some of us are planning on doing Brands next month, it's not long but could be the ideal place for a good shakedown test []).
Best regards,
Peter

 

[Globe_911]

I've been told that the Imola's are quite good seats, I'll have a look around for some and see what I can come up with. Harnesses, assuming 4 points are good enough for track day use, are there any makes to avoid? know Willans are meant to be good but thats it as far as harnesses go!

All the interior should be coming out so that'llhopefully lighten it up a bit and tyres and brakes I might be able t get at trade price and slicks are a possibility as it'll be being trailered there and back.

Brake fluid is due a change anyway so I'll replace that with dot 5.1 stuff and price up some braided hoses. I'll have a look at what suspension mods are available and do a bit of pricing up and see how its looking.

is it worth putting an induction kit on as I'll probably service it before it's first outing so seems pointless replacing the original items if there are better ones available.

also whats the best type of engine and gearbox oil to put in? if it's being used hard obviously don't want cheap stuff in!

cheers for your help []

 

[Diver944]

As Peter said, concentrate on lightening, tyres, brakes and suspension in that order. Any engine work should be last as there is not much extra to be had from an S2 engine. I wouldn't bother with an induction kit.

Hope to see you at a trackday soon []

 

[Peter Empson]

I haven't really looked into harnesses yet as I've not got around to fitting my half cage yet, but I was thinking of Willans too, I know others here have them in their 944's so hopefully they should comment soon.

As for the cage it might be worth chatting to Simon Davidson (see elsewhere on this forum) as he's just had one fitted to his 944 and it looks rather good.

With the interior stripped and light seats your car will be so much lighter, this will make such a big difference on track.

Don't just settle with any dot5.1 fluid, I would strongly recommend Castrol SRF, it isn't cheap but has given me the brakes I wanted. If I was on a budget I'd go with Castrol Response as I used to use it with good results.

For engine oil I get mine (Silkolene Pro S) from Opie oils, but I honestly think any good quality oil will be fine.

The induction kit will make a nice noise but not affect lap times meaningfully on its own, so I wouldn't really consider it essential to start with (and most off the shelf ones are badly designed for the S2 in my opinion as they're not long enough). If you want to chase power I think the exhaust is the first area I'd look at, and a head rebuild when the head gasket needs doing. To improve overall feel don't underestimate the improvement a short shift kit and a new steering wheel will make too.

 

[edh]

Hi Thomas

Sounds like a good project - I'll start with the inevitable...
What's the history on belts, rollers, waterpump, cam chain, tensioners & camshafts? - all vital to get checked out

Has the car been sat around for a while, or has it been in regular use? (and does the clock work? - and if it does, can I have it please? [])

As Peter said, good tyres & geometry will help you get the best out of the car - I wouldn't worry about slicks just yet - you'll fry your brakes if you're not careful. []

Ed

 

[Fen]

The guys have covered it pretty much. You have to try seats so go to GPR or Demon Tweeks or wait to the Autosport show to try some. I went with Corbeau Sprint XL after trying loads and I can drive for hours without getting uncomfortable in them.

On the S2 the weakness is the cams and chain. It's not what you want to hear, but there's a good chance it will need at worst the lot replaced. Also make sure the belts have been done within the last 36 months or 36,000 miles and give it a service with good quality oil then leave the engine alone. Anyone on a budget will just be wasting money trying to get anything meaningful out of an S2 engine that it doesn't provide standard; it needs to be opened up to improve it sufficiently. Even chips are more about driveability that outright power so more suited to road driven S2s.

Otherwise you should look for caliper plate lift on the brakes as well as doing fluid, braided lines and pads. You can easily spend what the car cost you on the chassis by the time you've sorted the brakes, tyres, bushes, ARBs and suspension itself. Don't be fooled into thinking M030 is the be-all and end-all because it's expensive to retrofit and it's an old suspension system. The only negaitve I've ever head about KW is the cost, but really it's no more expensive than any other solution (think getting on for £2k fitted by the time the alignment is done).

Geometry wise get it set accurately to the aggressive end of the tolerance allowed by Porsche in the year they recommended the most aggressive settings (it changed through production - I think you want 1989 settings) and it will feel very planted. A bit more negative camber on the front (say -3.5 degrees if you're trailering it and using track tyres) with those settings elsewhere is fantatsic in my experience; very difficult to get the back loose and good turn in also.

There are lots of electrical bits you can throw away. 924 manual window regulators will fit straight in the doors and you can ditch the rear wiper, headlamp washers and height adjusters, electric mirrors, central locking, front driving lamps (fit clear indicators and move the parking light bulbs in there if you want to stay road legal) etc. etc. I did all that plus the PAS (and air-con which you probably don't have) and stripped the wiring out of the loom also.

Don't even think about harnesses unless you have a cage with a harness bar (or a dedcated harness bar instead) as you will not get a safe angle on the shoulder straps without. Other than that any of the brand names will do - 5 point will be better than 4 and the pain in fitting is the lap belt / tunnel mount - once you've done that a crotch strap is easy to fit.

You can go with lightweight body panels - bonnet, wings, rear hatch, back bumper etc.

Stick to 17" wheels as you get a better choice of tyres than for 16" and they aren't as heavy as 18's.

 

[Globe_911]

I'll see if I can find simondavidsons post then and hopefully get in contact with him.seats and most of interior looks simple to take out so that can all come out and spare wheel and tools out as well and any other unnecessary components.

see if I can get some Castrol SRF through work, short shift kit is a possibility and it's already fitted with a tidy momo race steering wheel.

all belts were changed just over 4k ago and tensioned at last service 2k ago, not sure about the waterpump or camshaft, going to have to have a goo look through the rather large folder that came with it (fsh!) It's been used pretty much daily and no I dont think the clock does work on it!

I'll see if theres a place near me where I can get the suspension set up for track use. seems theres plenty to take out, it's going to go back on the road probably in a few years once I can afford insurance so dont want to be taking too much electrical stuff out really.I'll see if I can source a set of s/h 17's then as it currently has the 16" standard alloys on.

cheers for your help!

 

[lali]

Bolt in SD cages for S2's can be had from EMC in bham. 01213282225. They'll also be able to help you out with the lightweight body panels as well.
Dont be tempted to remove the rear glass hatch, even though it weighs 80+KG Cars with the lexan hatch just dont handle as well.

Not sure if the S2 has the same oil pickup pipe as the 968 but if it has then you'll want to get that checked and braced before it splits snaps and sucks a shed load of air into the engine instead of oil and you lunch your block!

I'll have to disagree with Paul, I wouldnt upgrade to track tyres before upgrading brake fluid and pads. As for those out there that think that having Big Reds etc will make your car faster around the track I have got 500 laps worth of comparitive times between a 968 with standard brakes vs one with Big Reds from this weekends Britcar24 that says otherwise!! Fluid and pads though are a must and SRF is the daddy!

Enjoy...

 

[Fen]

I don't think Peter would agree on the Lexan hatch. Perhaps what you meant to say was don't take the glass hatch off unless you take a similar amount of weight out of the front?

Even saying that the cab must be much lighter at the back than the coupe and it handles fine also - at least in terms of balance.

 

[Big Dave]

Fen the cab has a double floor, increasing the weight CONSIDERABLY.

 

[Fen]

Not at the back it doesn't.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: Fen

I don't think Peter would agree on the Lexan hatch.

You're not wrong, the only negatives are the clouding after a few years and imperfect sealing (but the extra exhaust noise is nice [8D]).
I did not notice any substantial change in balance with the lightweight hatch other than the improved agility that comes with losing weight (I did loose some stability over 80mph till I refitted a rear spolier though!). I should add I always run on track without the spare tyre too (that's 16kg itself) so my car did have more weight removed from the rear than the front. I have had the car corner weighted twice since and have great front to rear balance.

However I don't think the glass is anything like the 80kg quoted, I could lift it fairly easily so think it was about half that or less (I'm sure I have the figures here somewhere). IMO the problem with the hatch is not necessarily its weight but how high up it is, so whilst it only represents a small shift in front to rear balance on the scales it makes a much larger improvement in real terms.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: Globe_911

I'll see if theres a place near me where I can get the suspension set up for track use. seems theres plenty to take out, it's going to go back on the road probably in a few years once I can afford insurance so dont want to be taking too much electrical stuff out really.

My suspension was setup by JZ and I'm really happy with the job they've done (even if the settings are their secret), so if they're local I'd heartily recommend them.

I know what you mean about stripping too much out of the interior, but I might suggest that a full cage and road use is not the best combination - you don't want to hit your head on the bars without a helmet on. Saying that I may still go for a full cage, but thought you should go into it with your eyes open to the potential risks.

Compared to Fen and Simon* I've kept some creature comforts, I still have electric windows (the passenger side will definately remain as I like the ventilation) and central locking (its days are numbered but are a low priority), but then this is my only car and I drive it every day []. The sunroof has been converted to manual (and the panel itself will be replaced soon) and little things like the rear hatch motor have gone too, so it all adds up. One day when I have the courage the loom will be stripped down.

*Simon Davidson can be contacted at essentialstyling.com if you cant find his profile on here. However don't mention you're interested in removing weight from your car as he'll be round with a cutting wheel (his car will look like an Aerial Atom if he removes any more)

 

[Globe_911]

the cars not going to be used on the road for a couple of years yet anyway so right now track prep is the main priority. I'll have a look at roll cages from EMC as where Simon got his done is a fair way from me (I'm in Yorkshire) also makes the suspension place a bit far as well!

so basically stick to weight saving things to start with, as much interior out as possible, seats, cage and harnesses in. Castrol srf brake fluid in and possibly braided hoses as well. Porterfield/Performace Friction pads and a decent set of track tyres.

cheers for all your help! []

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Globe_911
so basically stick to weight saving things to start with, as much interior out as possible, seats, cage and harnesses in. Castrol srf brake fluid in and possibly braided hoses as well. Porterfield/Performace Friction pads and a decent set of track tyres.

... and as much driver training as you can get before he loses the will to drive ....


Oli.

 

[Globe_911]

set of 4 adjustable Koni's inc springs and postage £530 brand new! seems a pretty good price to me?

Castrol SRF is around £45 braided lines aaround £100 for the full car. not sure abotu cage and seats/harnesses yet []

 

[Diver944]

Double check how those Konis are adjusted.

Some of the cheaper ones have to be taken off the car to actually make an adjustment []

 

[random hero]

ORIGINAL: Globe_911

set of 4 adjustable Koni's inc springs and postage £530 brand new! seems a pretty good price to me?

Castrol SRF is around £45 braided lines aaround £100 for the full car. not sure abotu cage and seats/harnesses yet []

Have a word with stu on the 968 forum (k300) im sure he can do the braided lines cheaper than that !!

 

[Tam Lin]

Hi I'm new here as well, so ignore me if I'm speaking out of turn...

I've done a fairly similar thing, in that I've got a 924s, mostly to learn how to set up cars. I've (had)/ fitted better brakes, a KW V3 coilover suspension, uprated anti-roll bars, a Racer's Edge camber adjustable top mount...

I must say the biggest difference was losing the weight of the rear hatch. I had a plastic rear screen from "Plasics for performance" fitted into the standard frame (side benefit: when you press the hatch button, the rear screen rises majestically [8D]). Though this could be because I've got about 70 bhp less than the rest of you.

Losing weight transforms a 944/924s