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944 Turbo S questions

C

ccampbell84

New member
Hi guys, newbie here,

Just went for a spin in a 944 Turbo S I'm interested in. It's a bit rough around the edges aesthetically but i had a decent drive of it and all seems well mechanically.

The previous MOT has highlighted this though:

Nearside Front Macpherson strut has slight movement at the upper attachment
(2.5.A.1c)
Offside Front Macpherson strut has slight movement at the upper attachment
(2.5.A.1c)

Is this an expensive job to put right? It's the M030 suspension if that makes a difference

Also the aircon needs regassed. Again how tricky is this in a 944?

Cheers
 
Head gasket is a good thing - if it hasn't been replaced by now it will need doing soon, especially if you want any more power out of it.

The other stuff is more of an issue. Top mounts are ridiculously expensive for what they are and it sounds like it needs 2. There are aftermarket options if originality is not an issue, but there is little point buying used OE ones. As well as the cost of parts and labour to fit you'd need a geometry set-up after wards and typically in that sort of job you might find some "while you're in there" type extras, possibly including a rebuild of the struts themselves. All Turbo S have M030, but it does make a difference compared to standard cars in terms of the strut and (I think) the top mount. M030 is never cheaper than standard.

The biggest concern is the roughness around the edges though - if by that you mean some blistering to the sills and wing bottoms then be aware you will be looking at anything from 800 pounds to 2,000 plus to have it fixed. If the car is a Silver Rose and the roughness is worn seat fabric then be aware it's no longer available so you'll be looking at replacing it with something else or keeping your eyes open for a good passenger or rear seat tio strip (like tens of other people between current owners and brekaers / trimmers who know what this stuf is worth). If the roughness is interior trim it can get expensive, though at least the burgundy bits are easier to find as they were more widely used and any black bits would have been black in all 944s with oval dash. If the wheels are rough then they could be refurbished, but bear in mind some have fractured and refurbishing takes metal off them which can only weaken them.

I don't want to put you off, but personally I wouldn't touch a rough 944 these days - they are as expensive as ever to put right and the way I understand the market is in the UK just now the already nice ones are cheaper than ever.

Also unless you really want a dirty looking pinky-silver metallic 944 then don't place any extra value on the Silver Rose. The spec contains nothing that wasn't available in later full production years bar a thinner windscreen (and do the cars still have them fitted?) and Porsche made such a hash of the limited edition that there is nothing to show for it; they didn't fit a plaque, they didn't issue a certificate, they don't even know how many of the things they made for Heaven's sake. After all that they then undermined the whole run by making the same spec available as the volume production model in 1989 (sunroof delete becoming an option that is admittedly hard to find). From '90 the spec dropped a little (wheels and suspension), but M030 was all available as an option and it is neither that great nor likely to be in tip-top condition on a 20 year old car.

The bottom line is that they should be evalauted the same as any 944T from 1989 onward.
 
Yikes, not what I wanted to hear. How much we looking at? Are the bushes themself expensive items or its it a labour intensive job to replace them? If its the former then surely cheaper aftermarket items can be fitted - it is only a bush after all.

In terms of roughness there's a tiny blister on the front o/s wing, the rubber window seals look a bit rough, the bottom corner of the windscreen at the driver side has slightly delaminated, the driver seat bolster is worn out, paint work on the nose/bonnet is a bit faded, and the plastic trim on the drivers door has broken in places (door pocket). Not anything i'm too concerned about as it is priced as an honest example (4.5k).

Another slight concern is lack of mileage between the last few MOTs. 3k i think in the last 2/3 years. I know these cars are easy to clock and I'm concerned its had a wee haircut a couple of yrs ago to keep the mileage relatively sensible. Being 10k anyway it's hard to disguise but are there any tell tale signs?

Cheers

 
Is it a "proper" Turbo S - i.e 1988 Silver Rose model, or just a 250 Turbo? - some people will describe any 944T with the 26/8 turbo as a Turbo S

Any links to the ad?

Re-gassing the aircon is simple - keeping the gas in the system isn't . Main problems are likely to be leaky condensor, or leaky pipework. The metal pipes have rubber sections that become porous. Removing & replacing those pipes is very expensive, but there are some alternative flexible hoses available from the US.

The headgasket is not likely to be an issue unless the car is running more boost - do you know what sort of boost control / chip is fitted?

The sills might look OK - best to check them from the inside though
 
I honestly can't remember how much top mounts were last I heard, just that it is a lot for what they are. Something in excess of £200 each I think. They aren't difficult to fit, but both struts have to come off which means that the geometry will have to be reset (something close to £200 to have set on its own). You could well be looking at £700+ for the job without doing anything extra and you'd probably want to replace the castor mounts (which have gone up and are £60+ each it would now seem, and if you wanted to have the shock rebuilt since it's off that would be £100+ a side as well. Call it close to £1,200 if you want to replace the ARB bushes as well so you know the front suspension has had a decent going through.

The rough around the edges stuff might not be too bad - corrosion in the sills is the biggie, but you need to take out the plastic vents in the B-pillar and look inside to make sure they aren't rusting from the inside.

 
It's had some problems with the boost control pipe for the turbo too. Fixed now but is this a sign the turbo is playing up? As far as I'm aware it's still running the original turbo but it was refurbished in 2000, at the same time it was chipped to 276 BHP.

Cheers
 
Regarding the play in the struts, depends if it's top mounts (v expensive as Fen has said) or if it is the damper strut. If it is the damper strut this is the typical way these struts wear out, so will at the very least need new front shockers (is an MOT failure).

Also don't assume the A/C just needs a re-gas. If that is the case then why doesn't the seller just pay the £50 and sell the car with working A/C? I'd approach with extreme caution (not read the link in Jims thread but assume this is the conclusion he is hinting at).
 
Thanks for the comments guys.

Did take it for a drive and felt fine and tight at the front end. Maybe was too excited to be driving it rather than observantly testing it though...
 
I don't know what you're used to in terms of previous cars, but the 944T is heavy compared with most stuff - don't confuse that with solidity as it could be masking sloppiness.

I also wouldn't personally care about the last TiPEC poster's experience. Personally I'd say more fool anyone who hands over money to a used car dealer before all the work they have agreed they will do has been done. I trust them (in general; I know there are good ones, but they are in the minority I contend) somewhat less far than I could throw them. I also consider you get nothing, nadan zilch in terms of real protection buying from them over a private sale on a car like this, but they have to make a profit so if this car is listed at £4,500 it owes him £3,500 absolute tops. Why is it so cheap? Well, I think we can all make an assumption there.

Biggest scare for me in the thread Paul linked is someone (sorry I don't know who 944Tman is) saying the sill would scare him. For that reason alone I'd say it isn't worth the money and it has other issues also. Unless you must have an S, and you like the colour combo (unusual as you say - but why do you suppose that is?) I'd say find your best walking shoes and point them in the opposite direction to this car.

A quick worst-case analysis of what it needs is:
Front end (full?) respray
Top mounts & struts
Sill repair plus wing
Seat bolster and door pocket replacement
Wheel refurb
Matching tyres

£4,250 easily, probably more on top of the purchase price. Spend £8,500 and buy a nice one if your budget goes that far.

Lastly "chipped to 276bhp". How? It's absolutely possible, but it;s possible for that to be Bill Bull-droppings, or for it to have been bodged. On here you will find first-hand info on every trusted 944T tuning kit/method so if you can find out which it is you can get unbiased advice on it. It's about £300 to add it to a standard car to get that power anyway.
 
I've always liked the look of this one but as everyone says tread very carefully. This chap seems to sell "different" motors from the 90s and seems to move a few.
I'd ask Poprock nicely to come and see it with you, with his turbo, then you could gauge side by side.
ETA If you want a good car look for Gordon Attar's blue 944T in the classifieds. It's not very close but it would be a great trip home!
 
Felt incredibly heavy, not in a bad way mind but I'm used to a 328i Sport. Pulled magnificently and I experienced G's I could only dream about as a passenger through the bends.

The sills are solid, the only marks of note are the blister on the front wing and a chip to the nose. The front end paint did look slightly dull, was hard to determine how much as the car hadn't been cleaned (came @ short notice).

I can vouch for the seller, seems honest, knowledgeable and very helpful.

My budget is pushed to the max already, and admittedly I love the colour and spec but I shant let that cloud my judgement.

Thanks again

Edit: with regards to BHP claim it was rolling-roaded in 2000 after chip + turbo refurbishment, seen the print-out.
 
If your budget is maxed out, then don't buy it - you'll need a fund to fix the inevitable problems you get in a 20 year old car. At that price, you're better off with an S2, as you stand a bit more chance of getting a decent one for the money

As has already been suggested, front suspension could be a grand, and I wouldn't even bother trying to get the a/c working! (ask me how I know [:mad:] ) I bet you would spend £2-3k on this car in the first 6 months. take your pick from: Clutch, Caliper refurb, Front of engine belts/seals/water pump, Sills (are you really sure? - get a look inside from the rubber bungs in the inner sills, just in front of the seats)

I don't quite agree with Fen though - even the good cars still need money spending on them, so don't expect to spend £6-8k and nothing more.


 
^^^ sadly these are very true words. You will need at least 1000 to spend in the first 6 months however good it seems now. Promise.
 
Appreciate your sage advice chaps, under no illusions I can run one of these on the cheap.

Any thoughts on this turbo pipe issue?
 
Having said all that, I've had my turbo for 3 years, and I can't think of anything that's as good a track / road compromise for under 15-20k. I need 4 seats occasionally, & the hatch is very practical.
 
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