944 turbo

murv69 · Apr 10, 2007

Hi all

Looking to buy a 944 and have seen one tonight that I really like, just gone throuh an mot its a turbo model it goes like stink, I just have one question there is a kind of whining/ buzzing sound thats coming from the rear, the guy told me before I viewed that its a common thing for a whine to come from the 944 of this age its an 86 with 140k on the clock can only really notice it when driving along the motorway. Is this a common problem, or is the diff about to give up any help much appreciated. Also the belts were changed at 105k and re tensioned a few k on if its on 140k now are the belts due or have I got a few thousand miles left yet

Cheers Simon

pauljmcnulty · Apr 10, 2007

ORIGINAL: murv69

Hi all

Looking to buy a 944 and have seen one tonight that I really like, just gone throuh an mot its a turbo model it goes like stink, I just have one question there is a kind of whining/ buzzing sound thats coming from the rear, the guy told me before I viewed that its a common thing for a whine to come from the 944 of this age its an 86 with 140k on the clock can only really notice it when driving along the motorway. Is this a common problem, or is the diff about to give up any help much appreciated. Also the belts were changed at 105k and re tensioned a few k on if its on 140k now are the belts due or have I got a few thousand miles left yet

Cheers Simon

Belts - yes, they're due unless you want to push your luck! Also, check the water pump, rollers, seals were done last time or budget for a large bill....

Yes, they all make a noise from the back end. The degree to which this might be a problem is best left to an expert. The seller should have no problem letting you get it checked out by a specialist!

sawood12 · Apr 10, 2007

Hi Simon, yes the turbos do go like stink but it is important you do all you can to minimise the risk of buying a pup. Ultimately they are just a car and all the usual car rules apply but you must pay extra attension to anything you instinctively find iffy.

The belts are definately due and if you go ahead with the purchase then you should look to get them done immediately. Even though 40k is the official replacement interval the general feeling on this forum is you should aim to replace by 35k miles or 4yrs max.

Unfortunately the noise from the rear transmission is a bit more tricky. I wouldn't say it is common (I don't notice mine at all) but it is not unheard of. The transmission is certainly easily capable of lasting far longer than 140k miles. It could indicate a potential problem or a change of transmission oil might make things tickity boo again. If the rest of the car is in good nick, the maintenance history looks OK and comprehensive then it might be worth a punt, but again i'd change the transmission oil ASAP.

It is definately worth arranging to take the car round to a specialist to give it a check over. They might be able to advise on the transmission whine.

I don't want to put you off as there is no reason why a turbo should be any more expensive to run than any other 944, however if you do end up with a pup it it will generally cost you a small fortune to put right. And also don't forget that there are a number of pricy maintenance jobs on these cars like timing belt changes and clutch replacements for example, and this is often a reason why people decide to sell when they do. It could be that the current owner doesn't want to pay for the belt change (circa £350 for a belt change but you'll usually end up changing some other things while you're in there) so you are right to be suspicious. You should buget to spend around £1000 in the first year of ownership just to get you through those handfull of jobs the previous owner was putting off.

As well as the mechanicals don't forget the bodywork, especially the very bottom of the front wings and the sills. These seem to becoming more problematic as these cars hit 15 - 20yrs old.

But if you can get by that initial expenditure you'll have one hell of a car. I know cause i've got one and although it has cost me from time to time i've spent alot less on it than a typical modern hot hatch and it gives me far more smiles per mile. Good luck and do your research and find a good specialist.

sawood12 · Apr 10, 2007

Actually i've just been sat here thinking about when I first bought mine and I do recall noticing transmission noise coming from the rear. I've obviously got used to the noise and don't notice it now, but I do recall telling poeple who asked about the car that one of the things I liked about it was the transmisison noise under accellaration. It is definately worth having the car looked over by a specialist and by all means ask him about the transmission but I now recall that I did notice it when I first bought the car. It was three years ago now, so i've obviously got used to the various noises.

murv69 · Apr 11, 2007

Hi

Thanks for the replies the wine was under acceleration but didnt notice it whilst driving around town, the body work is in very good condition but does have some rot around the bottom of arches but nothing major as its just passed mot with no advisories
It has cream leather air con plus all other toys and they all work although he did say the aircon wasnt up to much overall its a fantastic looking car but I know looks can be decieving. The guy says he'll take £3700 I thought this was a good price for a turbo but I am not so sure now as the belts are gonna cost a few quid. I'm gonna find out insurance costs tomoz so it might make my mind up for me.

Cheers guys

John Sims · Apr 11, 2007

ORIGINAL: murv69

....he did say the aircon wasnt up to much .....

It's not working properly then. 944 aircons can make the inside very chilly when required.

Rust could be worse than it looks as 944's rot from the inside outwards.

If no previous reference of water pump replacement this will need doing at the same time as the belts - it isn't much of a job while the belts are off so will only add £150 to the bill.

944 transmission was even noted as noisy when they were new so that isn't necessarily an issue.

George Elliott · Apr 11, 2007

Simon,
You are right, great cars but they can be a money pit - so as Scott says, get some expert opinions.
I gave £6.5k for mine 5 years back, and have since spent about £4k on it, - which is not that bad. It was a good tidy car with 90k miles & 6 owners. It started out with me as a Classic, with limited miles insurance, then I became fed up driving anything else. Now I drive it all the time.
I'm not sure where everyone on here is milage wise, my car is currently 125k, and uses a drop of Oil. Otherwise no problems.
Areas which I have carried out repairs are : Disk/Pads, Fuel Lines, Brake Pipes, Wastegate, Rocker gasket, then Head gasket 4 weeks later, PAS Pump rebuild, Sills & Arches repaint, Rear Shocks, Exhaust, 4 wheel bearings, Alloys - refinish, Rear Hatch Pins, Right Hand engine mount, Heater Clip (cost 5p), Waterpump, 'Stat, Belts&Rollers, Dump Valve, Front Fog Lamps, wiper linkage, Door Check strap, Gear linkage knuckle, Gear Lever Leather cover, Glove box hinge, Caliper refurb - front, Injector Seals, Idle Valve-replace, Tyres & Servicing. Sounds like the diff is whining as mine does.
I would suspect that if you wind up the boost you may pop it one hot day,- they have the power to destroy themselves. Similarly if you rev it when cold as you might expect.
A compression test would be a good idea, someone else will tell you the reading where good health starts - mine is 130psi +/- 1 psi on all four cylinders. That is the lowest you would want to see in my opinion. I plan to fit a set of rings.
Oil pressure at full temp should be around 2.5 bar @860rpm tickover, - with 5w - 40 oil I have 2.7 bar which I am happy with. Again others will advise figures.
I do about half the labour, - DIY[8|]
They are very well engineered and all the repairs are available here or on the web.
Obviously avoid an accident damaged car, a specialist should spot one.
I don't know much - but I learned most of it here[

]. Seriously there is a lot of experience on this forum.
Hope this helps, don't be put off if you are looking at a good clean one. Equally if its really cheap .....run.
best of luck
George

'89 944T

Diver944 · Apr 11, 2007

If you are serious about the car I would definitely recommend getting it inspected by a Porsche Specialist (not AA or RAC).

£3700 is very very cheap for a good car, so it will be worth spending £200 on a full inspection to see if there is a couple of thousand pounds of work looming.

Whereabouts in the country are you and maybe smeone can recommend a Specialist near you?

John Sims · Apr 11, 2007

ORIGINAL: Diver944

If you are serious about the car I would definitely recommend getting it inspected by a Porsche Specialist (not AA or RAC)......

Agree 100%. The AA did Beaky before I bought him. It was a complete waste of money. There again Beaky was a relatively cheap but relatively good car, so there weren't too many disasters to find (or miss in this case).

Another point on your prospective purchase......The Turbo is only considered sound to 160K so you could be looking to replace or refurbish that within 20 months (subject to your millage). I replaced Beakys at 180K and it seemed in good nick.

murv69 · Apr 11, 2007

Hi

Thanks for the replies a few things there to think about. the guy has owned this for about two years and he brought it unseen and had it inspected on his behalf by a company called sportscarguides who gave it a clean bill of health obviously that was two years ago alot can happen in two years

Cheers again I will let you know how I get on

Simon

murv69 · Apr 11, 2007

I am not sure if anyone knows these guys the car has been serviced and anywork done at JZ Mach Tech in Hertfordshire.
Not sure if they could give me any info

Simon

knightma · Apr 11, 2007

Simon,

If the whinning noise is proportional to road speed, I would suggest it could be the pinion bearings in the diff. I had these get noisy in the 924 I owned previously. They are large diameter opposed taper roller bearings that require very careful shimming to adjust the bearing preload. The OPC that did mine didn't get it right first time and it was back a year later for them to be changed under warranty. They will go on for many thousands of miles in this noisy condition but they will require replacing eventually as the races pit and break down. Not sure what it would cost now (mine were done in the early 90's by an OPC) so phone round a few specialists but it won't be cheap.

Regards

Diver944 · Apr 11, 2007

ORIGINAL: murv69

I am not sure if anyone knows these guys the car has been serviced and anywork done at JZ Mach Tech in Hertfordshire.

I had my S2 serviced there for over 7 years and 80k miles and my Turbo over 4 years and 50k miles and had no problems, they did a very good standard of work and kept my cars in top health. They may be able to help you if they know the car well. I've only stopped going there because the labour rate started increasing alarmingly and the current roadworks on the M1 made a 45 minute trip into a 90 minute nightmare [

]

DavidL · Dec 30, 2008

LSD and bigger brakes - yes (I think!)
MO30 - no only if specced from new.

Check the options list in the handbook or on the slip of paper behind the boot carpet by the lock.
This will tell you most of these things as there is often a code for some the optional extras that became standard.
A quick hunt will find you a decode site for the options codes.

James_G · Dec 30, 2008

A very timely question, particularly in respect of the brakes.

Does this mean that in 1990 there were three different caliper sizes on the 944 range? My thinking is;

1. 944 S2 brakes (same size as 220 bhp Turbos)

2. 944 Turbo brakes (i.e. 250 bhp model)

3. MO30 Brakes (as fitted to Turbos and rarely but occasionally S2s)

And am I right in thinking that 1990 Turbo and S2 brakes are interchangeable (albeit different sizes) but that MO30 brakes require specific hubs as they mount differently??

Thanks.

sawood12 · Dec 30, 2008

In 1990 there were two types of brakes fitted to the 944 turbo/S2 models. The S2 was fitted with the 'small' blacks (the same as the earlier 220 turbo's) and the '90 turbo's were fitted with the 'medium' black calipers.

I'm pretty sure that all the later non-M030 250 turbo's had the medium black calipers (were any 250 turbo's fitted with small blacks?), but if you got an M030 equipped S2 or an M030 equipped early turbo then you'd also get the brake upgrade to medium blacks.

Then of course all the other 944's had single pot floating calipers.

Also as far as I can tell all 250 turbos were fitted with the LSD and oil cooler equipped gearbox as standard.

u63af · Dec 30, 2008

I have a 1990 s2 M030. Which I am assuming has the medium black brembos. So what is different about the M030 944 turbo and the 1990 standard turbo? Does the standard 90 turbo not have konis or 26.8mm arbs?

The only reason that I am asking is that I am considering selling my s2 to get a turbo but as mine is a M030 I want to make sure it would have the same brakes. It seems to be hard to find a clean turbo.

Riverside · Dec 30, 2008

ORIGINAL: sawood12
I'm pretty sure that all the later non-M030 250 turbo's had the medium black calipers, but if you got an M030 equipped S2 or an M030 equipped early turbo then you'd also get the brake upgrade to medium blacks.

Just to confirm, this is correct.

LSD is listed in the option list on any 944 that has (or originally had) one fitted, as option 220. It's easy to check the option sheet, and not much harder to confirm it's presence (with both rear wheels off the ground & the car in neutral rotate one wheel, if it has an LSD the other wheel will turn the same way, if no LSD it will turn in the opposite direction).

Konis were the shock used on the '88 'S' and '89 turbos, the later ones had 'uprated' shocks (and springs) but there were a couple of different versions. Whatever shocks were originally fitted will be pretty worn out by now anyway so the exact make isn't all that important.

sawood12 · Dec 30, 2008

ORIGINAL: u63af

I have a 1990 s2 M030. Which I am assuming has the medium black brembos. So what is different about the M030 944 turbo and the 1990 standard turbo? Does the standard 90 turbo not have konis or 26.8mm arbs?

The only reason that I am asking is that I am considering selling my s2 to get a turbo but as mine is a M030 I want to make sure it would have the same brakes. It seems to be hard to find a clean turbo.

The non-M030 1990 turbo had the medium blacks but didn't have the Koni adjustable suspension. The early turbo's and S2's have the same suspension and over this setup the non-M030 turbo's had uprated TB's and ARB's and I think had uprated front springs but not adjustable. M030 provided the adjustable front struts and rear shock absorbers as well as one or two other items such as top mounts, A-arms and some other bushes. I'm not sure of all the relative spring and damper rates - though I have seen a good website at some stage which listed all that sort of detail but didn't bookmark it.