944 turbo

[sawood12]

I wouldn't say that there is any weakness in the engine of a turbo on the contrary, they are pretty bulletproof if well looked after. The thing about #4 cylinder is true but is usually attributed to poor bleeding of the engine coolant as there is a natural air-trap around cyl #4. If you bleed the engine properly then there is no increased risk.

You should approach a potential purchase of a turbo in exactly the same way as any other 944 - with caution. The engines on turbo's are pretty tough and this is borne out by many people running significantly increased levels of boost perfectly reliably at upto 350bhp on essentially a stock engine and by the number of people tracking them reliably. You should be more concerned about getting a car with good sills and the usual bodywork areas (as you unfortunately all too well know!). Clearly if the car is smoking like a chain smoker on a stressful day then steer clear - as you would with any car whether it be a turbo or not.

You can't judge how good a car is by how much the seller wants for it either. The best way to minimise the risks of buying a dog is to look for history - the more the better, anything that can indicate that the previous owners have treated the car as it should be treated. If you can find a car that has a full service history and other invoices/receipts to back up that work has been carried out when necessary then that all indicates the car has been cared for.

If you want to take a risk on a cheap turbo then fine, but you'll need to have money set asside, so if you can afford to have money set asside then why buy a cheap car over a slightly more expensive one with good history and in better nick? But for me the turbo is a superb model. The old school power delivery makes for an interesting drive and provides another dimension and the pace when on boost is exhilarating. All adds to the charm. I'll be sorry to see mine go.

 

[dann944]

i think my absolute top budget would be around 5-6k i'm confident i can get a structurally sound version for that, but im not going to rush into it (honest) []

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: dann944

does a widefire gasket sort the overheating problem??

No

I've had the Lindsey racing steam vent kit fitted into the head to fix that issue.

 

[sawood12]

The steam vent kit does the work but requires a hole drilling in the cylinder head. It is basically a line routed from the cylinder head at the high point of the water jacket were any air will accumulate so it can vent via the hose back into the expansion tank. However if you vent the cooling system properly this is not a risk.

Widefire HG is just an alternative for a stock HG. There are some who believe it is better but the reality is there is nothing wrong with the stock HG.

 

[PSH]

As stated by edh , you need the steam vent kit to totally remove the issue with No.4 cylinder, this is the info from Lindsey Racing. quote:


"The 8 valve cylinder head has an air pocket or cavity in the rear of the head that traps the air and cannot remove this air on it's own. This air pocket is located on the number 4 combustion chamber and since the engine coolant cannot enter the pocket because of the trapped air, the aluminum overheats, causing it to expand and overcrush the head gasket. "


Also as edh says the widefire or indeed the cometic head gaskets will not remove this flaw but it's not really too big a problem for standard cars , what the above gaskets will do is allow a higher than normal boost to be used without the risk of gasket failure. Now you can also install raceware head studs to stop gasket failure too but there are two mind sets involved here. You see in bolting the head down so securely you take away a safety feature in as the next thing to go will be the block itself, so personally i have stayed away from race studding , i have had two gaskets go over the years( although never a cometic) and I'm very glad I didn't go the raceware route as I may have had to get a new engine by now[]

At the end of the day it will be your choice what you do and the more you tinker with a turbo the more you will learn and thus able to make an educated decision of your own...


Pete


Pete

 

[dann944]

Just out of interest how many miles have you done, ive been offered one with 180k on the clock....

 

[PSH]

these cars eat up miles so don't worry about what may seem high mileage. all porsches last.... mine has done 189k and will out live me i'm sure.
She's not perfect.. i need to change some oil seals which i'll do when i can . BTW when i bought her more than 11 years ago she was advertised as the best in the country..( no kidding)... but i think those who know her will agree she is one of the better examples around...[]... oh and she's won concours and Porsche offered to buy her off me.... no chance , she's all mine....[][]

 

[dann944]

is there alot of work and labour involved in the steam kit?

 

[PSH]

in as far as you need to take the head off then yes, but I wouldn't worry about the steam kit, what scott says is true to some extent in as if bled properly the risks are lower, but there will always be an air pocket there no matter what you do.
I do not have the steam kit on my car , I'm running at 21psi and and I drive hard. I have blown two gaskets in the last 11 years , both at No.4 cylinder , one was because the gasket was original and the other was too much boost/compression with a new widefire gasket very soon after trying ametech... boy does that stuff increase compression...lol
Anyway since I fitted the cometic gasket and in fact increased boost from 19psi to 21 psi I have had no problems... as i said before you learn as you timker. To be honest I have no idea how the car will do on the dyno saturday as it is running the higher boost plus it now has the magic of an Apexi which holds the boost without letting off to the red line... it will be an interesting day. But hey I have full breakdown cover and I really do need an excuse to remove the engine to fix and tweek it a little more....[]

 

[dann944]

oh i see, well hopefully ill be able to find an unmolested standard car,

 

[edh]

you might be disappointed by a "standard" car - "molested" ones are much more fun []

Seriously - cars with minor boost mods give you a much more satisfying midrange, with earlier spool up & more torque. I would have thought that most turbos these days would br running with a boost enhancer or something similar.

 

[sawood12]

A standard car will have a cream crackered wastegate for sure, mine did. Then you'll want a DPW, then you'll want a whole host of other things and that is the slippery slidy slope!!

180k is nothing on these cars if well looked after.

 

[Fat Albert]

Mine has 196k on it (bought with 194k) and is midly tweaked (cone air filter, boost enhancer and dump valve)
At the service 3 minor oil leaks were identified but was told not to worry about them as they are very minor currently.

A friend (ex 968 and 'Grale owner) has just traded down from a 993 to an '06 Scooby WRX and I let him have a blast. Mine felt much stronger in the mid-range than the Scoob, but overall the numbers seemed to be appearing at about the same rate. He could tell that the 951 was older than the scoob, but it didn't feel like 21 years....then of course you look at how much I paid for it and it seems remarkable value[]

 

[edh]

Lots of red cars on this thread - keep it up []

 

[Suffolk944]

Yes don't assume that if a Turbo has been modded that it has been molested. As others have said, in many ways they almost need a bit of mild modding (at least a boost enhancer) to make them so much of a better drive than standard. Your budget should get a good 'un of middle vintage imho. They are great fun and very different to any of the normally aspirated versions, am sure you will love it once you get one. []

 

[ukmastiff]

Ive read a lot re buying the 'best car you can afford' etc but just a thought , I have no excperience of Porsche ownership but have had a lot of cars since turning 17 like most folk , some very good ( never forget that classic sunbeam Ti) and some very very bad ( most of those by Rover) . It seems clear that dropping 2,000 on fixing up your cheeply bought 951 would be very easy indeed but you could of course spend £5000 on quite a good one and still pop bang wiz spend 2,000 on problems.

Or you could but a cheep one ( like pixie) and maybe get lucky
( hopefully ditto for pixie) , or at worst spend 2 or 3 grand putting the cheepie right but be no worse off.

If I wanted a fast car that looked good and wasnt likely to cause me any hastle at all I would have bought a Boxster with 60,000 miles on the clock for about 8,500 and I may still do for my day car. However at the mo I have hankering for an old girl who will accompany me to the odd car show or classic day out.

Isnt a 944/51 being a cheep but georgous car part of the fun, from the stories you guys post it sure seems that way

Just a thought , or two and best of luck with your hunt Mas

 

[sawood12]

The difference is are you spending your £2k on making up for the pup you've landed yourself with or £2k on normal maintenance items that have unfortunately landed in your period of ownership. There is a difference - and in anycase, if you buy a pup then you'll be looking at far more than £2k to get it straight in all likelihood. If you've hung around this forum for as long as I have you get to hear a few horror stories over the years. At the end of the day, a Porsche it may be, and there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche, but they are getting on now and alot of them have been abused over the years so you have to excersise caution. There are far more duff ones out there than good ones. And it doesn't just apply to turbo's, but all models of 944's, 924's, 968's, 911's etc. If you're handy with a spanner and Tig welder and fancy a project then go for it. But if you rely on paying someone else to turn the spanners then £2k doesn't stretch very far on a Porsche.

 

[Fat Albert]

ORIGINAL: edh

Lots of red cars on this thread - keep it up []

Well that was the main Factory power and speed enhancement wasn;t it?[]

I did an 80 mile round trip in mine to the Sywell revival LAA Fly-in on Saturday (Medical issue prevented me flying in) and I had an absolute hoot, it sat on the A14 at 90 leptons quite comfortably, and gobbled up the sweeping northamptonshire country lanes with relish.

I paid £2,600 for mine and have spent around £800 on a service, MoT, Cambelt change, rear Tyres, armrest, Mirror glass and polish, lots and lots of polish! It only takes 3 hours to turn it back to Red now....

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Ive read a lot re buying the 'best car you can afford' etc but just a thought , I have no excperience of Porsche ownership but have had a lot of cars since turning 17 like most folk , some very good ( never forget that classic sunbeam Ti) and some very very bad ( most of those by Rover) . It seems clear that dropping 2,000 on fixing up your cheeply bought 951 would be very easy indeed but you could of course spend £5000 on quite a good one and still pop bang wiz spend 2,000 on problems.

Of course, there are cheap cars out there worth buying but they are very rare. The standard recommendation is to buy the car, pay for all the known faults to be fixed and then allow £1K on a Lux and £1.5K or more on an S2 or Turbo for the things you didn't spot. Think about it, add up sills at £1K per side, wings at £500 per side, respray to include the stone-chipped PU and badge panel, sort out the bit of rust around the tailgate pins, hell; respray the whole car whilst we're at it. New sunroof and tailgate seal, few bits of interior trim, gearshift is sloppy, need a wishbone and a 4-wheel alignment. Those fuel lines are looking dodgy, there's caliper corrosion and the brake lines are shot. The clutch might be the old rubber type, belts are due next year and water pump is original......

Ok, that's being very negative, of course. But, I'd guess that every car out there needs one or more of these jobs doing. The point is, you could be looking at many £000s if you buy the wrong car, but it'll be less if you buy one that's got evidence of at least some of the known weak spots dealt with. I wish people would understand that these are better cars than anything of the period, and most of the cars that have come along since. That doesn't mean that they are bargain-basement cars to own, just better value than most of the rubbish out there. Spending the money to keep them at their best is essential, and buying a good one is a sensible starting point even if it's overpriced.

 

[ukmastiff]

Unless modified all 944 Turbos are 2.5 ? . As for 6000 being a limited budget , despite what some folk would like to be the case , 6000 is well near top money for a 944 turbo these days.
Enjoy your search.

Mas