CarreraRSR
New member
I'll leave this here http://www.silverstoneauc...rsche-944-s2-cabriolet
944 values..all models
- Thread starter PSH
- Start date
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Turbo cab money!
Mikebarry202
New member
Seems to be a credit to the 2 previous owners. 6 cylinders though, even the engine is inflated!
pauljmcnulty
Active member
It shows how strange the market can be.
Ages ago I came up with a pecking order of 944s that were the most "collectible" to pure investors. The S2 cab wasn't near the top, and I'm surprised at this price even taking the stunning condition, mileage and history in to account.
If it was a turbo cab, a Turbo S, a Cup car, even an early Lux I'd see why someone would want it to lock away as a safe investment. I don't see the standard S2 cab ever being that sort of car.
Ages ago I came up with a pecking order of 944s that were the most "collectible" to pure investors. The S2 cab wasn't near the top, and I'm surprised at this price even taking the stunning condition, mileage and history in to account.
If it was a turbo cab, a Turbo S, a Cup car, even an early Lux I'd see why someone would want it to lock away as a safe investment. I don't see the standard S2 cab ever being that sort of car.
Waylander
Active member
Any car is only worth what any buyer is willing to pay for it, with these cars you are your own worst enemies
you value them on your own perspective of values and comparison to the genral market prices, you should really start to big up the prices of these cars like the cab above in the post, the client that bought it obviously considered it worth the money
why should every other car in the same condition not be valued at the same, in hindsight I think the man that got what was considered at the time top money for his lovely low mileage silver rose, was actually short changed.
there will always be the bottom of the market, but even at 27k it was a bargain
you value them on your own perspective of values and comparison to the genral market prices, you should really start to big up the prices of these cars like the cab above in the post, the client that bought it obviously considered it worth the money
why should every other car in the same condition not be valued at the same, in hindsight I think the man that got what was considered at the time top money for his lovely low mileage silver rose, was actually short changed.
there will always be the bottom of the market, but even at 27k it was a bargain
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Hi Martin,
I disagree, I think we are actually losing value in the cars when an S2 cab goes for 27 grand!
The investment market is fine for the collectible models: tubo cab, cup, silver rose etc. It's not a good place to invest in if you're buying the "everyday" versions of the car. I've used this example before, but just because Jaguar E-types are rare and worth a fortune you wouldn'y suggest investing a significant amount in a diesel S-Type estate? Perhaps the R-type, but only the very rarest and desirable of the mass-produced car manufacturers are investments.
Just as the GT3RS and 993 turbo are investment Porsches, a bog-standard 996, Boxster, 924 or 944 might get dragged up by the rising top-end, but not to the same extent. If the bubble bursts, this car will take a hit.
My second point is that prices going to this level will just take the useable 944s off the road. If I genuinely believed that my S2, worth perhaps £8K now, would be £25K in a few years, it would be mothballed: how would that help me enjoy the car?
I've never understood collecting, so I'll always have a different point of view to many here. I drink wine, rather than watch it gather dust! I like to see a 944 out on the road with a boot full of dogs and shopping, doing proper annual mileage and raising a smile every time. Yes, it's nice when they are worth enough to warrant proper maintenance and restoration, but not at the expense of them being used as Porsche intended: an everyday workhorse, or being driven properly on a track. [
]
I disagree, I think we are actually losing value in the cars when an S2 cab goes for 27 grand!
The investment market is fine for the collectible models: tubo cab, cup, silver rose etc. It's not a good place to invest in if you're buying the "everyday" versions of the car. I've used this example before, but just because Jaguar E-types are rare and worth a fortune you wouldn'y suggest investing a significant amount in a diesel S-Type estate? Perhaps the R-type, but only the very rarest and desirable of the mass-produced car manufacturers are investments.
Just as the GT3RS and 993 turbo are investment Porsches, a bog-standard 996, Boxster, 924 or 944 might get dragged up by the rising top-end, but not to the same extent. If the bubble bursts, this car will take a hit.
My second point is that prices going to this level will just take the useable 944s off the road. If I genuinely believed that my S2, worth perhaps £8K now, would be £25K in a few years, it would be mothballed: how would that help me enjoy the car?
I've never understood collecting, so I'll always have a different point of view to many here. I drink wine, rather than watch it gather dust! I like to see a 944 out on the road with a boot full of dogs and shopping, doing proper annual mileage and raising a smile every time. Yes, it's nice when they are worth enough to warrant proper maintenance and restoration, but not at the expense of them being used as Porsche intended: an everyday workhorse, or being driven properly on a track. [
]
blade7
Well-known member
I think there's a middle ground between the investment and everyday cars, the 2nd or 3rd weekend/sunny day cars that I'd class mine as. I just wouldn't enjoy driving it in crawling traffic or crap weather. I don't care that some people think the wheels are "wrong" or the exhaust is noisy, I just want it to be something special when I do drive it. I've never listened to the stereo in it, not even sure if it still works.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
I agree,blade7 said:
Probably lots more groups we could divide the cars in to as well.
I just think that we aren't talking prices down, or the cars down, by saying that the stratospheric rise in values of the investment cars is not equalled by the rest of them. They aren't all in that market, and why should all 944s be museum-quality cars anyway?
Waylander
Active member
Hi Paul
not suggesting they should all be museum cars, but even the 3K ones on the bay cost just as much to maintain as the high priced queens, the value of the cars should reflect this.
my insurance has just agreed 12.5 for my bag of bolts 968, but when I look at the cars for sale that's not enough to cover another car and all the parts to get to where mine is. (and thats only half done)
the higher middle ground prices keep the breakers at a distance too
not suggesting they should all be museum cars, but even the 3K ones on the bay cost just as much to maintain as the high priced queens, the value of the cars should reflect this.
my insurance has just agreed 12.5 for my bag of bolts 968, but when I look at the cars for sale that's not enough to cover another car and all the parts to get to where mine is. (and thats only half done)
the higher middle ground prices keep the breakers at a distance too
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Slight disagreement there, sorry! [&:]
Do the £15K turbo cars, now being mothballed as pension funds, really have the same running costs as a cheap lux you find on fleabay?
I think there are loads of cheaper 944s we see being DIY restored, converted to track toys, or even bought cheap and run until they break.
There are plenty of cheap parts and DIY fixes that keep the cars going if you want to enjoy them. They aren't the parts you'd fit to a £27.5K S2 cab, but then that car will probably never be driven again as any mileage would de-value it, and it'll need the regular Porasche service parts in order to keep it's unique history up to date.
The irony about this car is that it's too expensive to drive, given that the mileage is it's USP. It needs expensive maintenance just to keep the service stamps up even if it does one trip a year to the MOT, yet will never be as valuable as buying a turbo cab for the same money. I just don't get it? [&o]
Do the £15K turbo cars, now being mothballed as pension funds, really have the same running costs as a cheap lux you find on fleabay?
I think there are loads of cheaper 944s we see being DIY restored, converted to track toys, or even bought cheap and run until they break.
There are plenty of cheap parts and DIY fixes that keep the cars going if you want to enjoy them. They aren't the parts you'd fit to a £27.5K S2 cab, but then that car will probably never be driven again as any mileage would de-value it, and it'll need the regular Porasche service parts in order to keep it's unique history up to date.
The irony about this car is that it's too expensive to drive, given that the mileage is it's USP. It needs expensive maintenance just to keep the service stamps up even if it does one trip a year to the MOT, yet will never be as valuable as buying a turbo cab for the same money. I just don't get it? [&o]
9four4
New member
Correct.. mileage is the usp. I doubt that will drive anywhere aside to be MoT'd, if that..and that's assuming it's even staying in the UK. That has been purchased purely as an investment and if you guys don't reckon it's worth that now (it was bid all the way there at that auction you can be sure of that) it certainly will be in the coming years. I can see that as part of a very large collection, on display sat under lights..or under a cover in dry heated storage never to be seen again for a long time.
Personally.. I frequent the classic auctions and I have a different opinion. They are full of idiots who don't really know what they are talking about when it comes to model specifics, and many get carried in the moment and bid way to much for average examples. I see them all the time paying retail money for cars that need work, I see them getting carried away because it might be very shiny or low miles, a rare model or fancy colour..so its no real surprise to me it has done that money in a classic auction. If it was offered to me, I would put £18k of my own money in it with a hope to get £22k back and I would advertise at £25k.. so I think it is too dear costing £29k (including the hammer) at a trade auction (where the idea is to then go and retail it for profit, lol..)..
Personally.. I frequent the classic auctions and I have a different opinion. They are full of idiots who don't really know what they are talking about when it comes to model specifics, and many get carried in the moment and bid way to much for average examples. I see them all the time paying retail money for cars that need work, I see them getting carried away because it might be very shiny or low miles, a rare model or fancy colour..so its no real surprise to me it has done that money in a classic auction. If it was offered to me, I would put £18k of my own money in it with a hope to get £22k back and I would advertise at £25k.. so I think it is too dear costing £29k (including the hammer) at a trade auction (where the idea is to then go and retail it for profit, lol..)..
CarreraRSR
New member
blade7 said:
True, but wait until the Chinese start buying in to Classics and importing them in to China which currently they can't. Then you'll see a lot of Euro classics disappearing quite fast In a year or so
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