992 New Model Ownership Woes

[Laurence71]

I took delivery of my very nearly new 992 (demo with 77 miles) a few weeks ago. In an odd situation as I can’t actually drive it as I had an op on my foot so its been sitting on the drive.

When it was delivered a warning popped up - “ ACC Not Available. Driving Permitted. Inspection Necessary “. It cleared but comes up each time the car is started. As it had been driven down in bad weather we thought it was just some crud in the lens but that’s not the case it seems.

Then on the way to get it detailed (my Detailer drove the car) the seatbelt warning kept on chiming until it gave up. It happened on the test drive and I was assured it would be rectified before delivery.

My OPC is miles away but has arranged for a local OPC to collect the car and fix the bugs once it’s been detailed.

My OPC has been very apologetic and is doing what he can to get this sorted but it’s not the new owner experience I had hoped for especially as the car had gone through the pre delivery checks etc and none of this issues were flagged up.

I get that there can be glitches and I hope they sort them as I am not prepared to be a beta tester.

 

[Gazoak]

I'm worn out after reading all these posts, particularly of Lee's woes with his 992. The paint fault on the rear bumper is inexcusable on any new car, not least one costing over £100000. Where is the quality control at the factory? It's disappointing that there are so many electrical issues on this new model, particularly with items that worked perfectly on other models. When I bought my 981, it was a keeper so I deliberately limited the electrical additions hoping that long term little would go wrong and so far so good. The ACC sounds dangerous and if it were mine, I'd be getting very close to wanting to hand the car back!

 

[Davewdent]

Hi Lance,

The porsche charge o mat charger is suitable for lithium batteries. You can chose between normal batteries , motorcycle and lithium.

It goes into trickle (pulse mode) once the battery is fully charged. I have had mine on 'trickle' for the past 3 weeks while I was away.

You need the extra adapter cable as it comes with a cigarette lighter plug (assuming you dont have the necessary socket). Or do as I have and buy the ctek extension cable, do a bit of cutting and joining and have a ctek plug permanently connected to the battery and extended into the front boot for easy connection.

Good luck,

Dave.

 

[aholymanjones55]

[blockquote] Food for thought I have to say that like other readers I find the read through here a horrible experience for Lee, aka UK Nick Murray. My 2014 991.1 Targa 4S was one year old with 7k on the clock and part of GB press launch fleet when I acquired. I also went through a series of niggles that took around 4 months to iron out. The car was in an out to the OPC like a yoyo. Longest time at the OPC was over 2 weeks due to water in the footwell turning the front and rear drivers side into a mini-swimming pool from a pipe that became disconnected from the A/C. It takes that long for the carpets to dry out naturally. [/blockquote][blockquote]Effectively the car was 3 years into its production run at this stage….I was also surprised to find so many silly issues. My other new Porsches prior to this were perfect with never any issues.I also queried my experience with the OPC and we went through every line of its service record including recall/warranty type upgrades…... to check it was not a Friday afternoon lemon. [/blockquote][blockquote]My Macan 2016 has been faultless from new as has my replacement for the Targa a 2019 718 Boxster GTS. [/blockquote][blockquote]I have friend getting a top of the range Taycan in March 2020. I do wonder with so much electronic tech going into these cars right now, is it really a surprise that elements often just don’t seem to work as intended on integration, especially when they work in other models. ACC I've only tried on a loaner Boxster. It's not something I would ever spec…. I like to be in control. [/blockquote][blockquote]I did a round rip to Scotland in a mates RR Velar with it fitted. Handy on motorway …handy when in 50 MPH go slow zones. [/blockquote][blockquote]Years ago the story was always wait at least 12 months to buy a new model for the production to sort out the launch issues. Maybe that timeline needs shifting out so the first guys into the new cars, aren’t the guinea pigs or Beta jockeys. [/blockquote]

 

[Lance T]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my battery or alarm woes. I contacted the dealer straight away wondering why I didn't already have one of these. It seems this charger you speak of is for Lithium Ion batteries and works on the GT models as they have lightweight 12v Li-Ion but the 992 uses a different concept. A mix of 12v Pb AGM and 13.2v Li-ion. My dealer reminded me that they actually supplied me with one of those until they realised it would not optimise and would actually pull my battery down in charge. Porsche do not at this time have a charger for the 992.

I truly hate to sound like I know what I'm talking about. I have just copied over what I have been informed. I am however becoming worried that the issue might be battery related. Having now given the car several longish runs I have had no alarm issues for a week or so. It's still a fault in my mind because this shouldn't cause an alarm and tracker issue just because it gets a little low. It still turns over without any hesitation. Maybe as it drops a little it sends a signal. Too sensitive for my money. I don't think I'm out of the woods yet or totally convinced this is the problem either. I have other cars and I am going to be an irregular user so I obviously have some concerns. Thanks anyway Dave. It made me seek the answer.

Best Wishes,

Lance

 

[BigCat]

Hi Lance, I think your dealer has given you incorrect information.

In a 992 depending on country/market, the battery fitted is either an AGM or LiFePO4 (you have to lift the cover and look at the label), the former is Lead Acid the latter is Lithium, I think your dealer interpreted this as a combination but then the typical dealer sales knowledge is usually limited[:-] It doesn't stop there either as there are many types of Lithium battery see this if you really want to know.https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion.

I have a 991.2 C4 GTS but I was looking for more information on Lithium battery charging as I also have a Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid Coupe which is fitted with a lightweight LiFePO4 type Lithium battery, same as your 992 and the GT cars. My CTEK MXS 5.0 is a definite non starter (excuse the pun) as it will damage the Lithium battery.

CTEK make a specific charger for LiFePO4 batteries, the CTEK Lithium XS, or you could get the latest version of the Porsche Charger which is an OEM branded CTEK charger which will charge both Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries, it has a slightly higher charging voltage but still under the maximum allowable of 14.8V.

Adrian

 

[cymro]

Thanks Adrian for that useful information.

I have checked my battery and it is the 13.2V Life P04 Li Ion battery.

In regards to a suitable charger, I assume the Charger product no 95804490170 is the correct charger

Huw

 

[BigCat]

This is beginning to look like a can of worms. I was at the OPC this morning and got onto the subject of chargers for the Lithium car battery. A technician told me that the current Tequipment Porsche Charger‘s Lithium mode is for 12V Lithium batteries which were fitted as an option on 991 GT3s onwards. The 992 and my Cayenne E-Hybrid both have 13.2V Lithium batteries. So the technician went on to say if you try to charge a 13.2V battery with that charger it will only check for 12V and this could result in the battery going into protection mode whereby it shuts down and disconnects. Sure enough the battery on my Cayenne is marked as 13.2V but the owners manual refers to it as a 12V LiFePO4. The 992 has the same type of battery if it’s fitted with a Lithium rather than an AGM battery. Anyway I‘ve put a call into CTEK support to see what they have to say.

 

[pwebb]

BigCat

When you have got a clear picture, perhaps you could start a new thread for 992 owners to see what charger to use on the 992. I suspect most owners assume it has a normal lead acid battery and will be as surprised as I was that it is Lithium and that the CTek 5 charger we normally use is not recommended. Quite a lot of these cars are stored for periods over winter on a charger so this would be essential reading!

 

[Lance T]

Thanks for coming back with this information. As the previous reply went on to say, these cars are not always used on a daily basis and mine will certainly spend enough time resting that I would like to trickle charge it. I was born without any technical ability or know how and I've steadily got worse. I will keep my eyes fixed on these posts to see if a solution arises but my dealer is adamant that no such charger yet exists for the 992. Marvellous.

LanceT

 

[Lancerlot]

Ctek Lithium XS charger is available for charging Lithium (12v LiFePO4) batteries.

Around £100 on Ebay.

Regards,

[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]Clive[/font]

 

[Davewdent]

Hi,

I had this discussion with Ctek who recommended the porsche charger over their own model on the basis that it has a different charging algorithm.

If you take a look at the algorithms (can be found in the instruction manuals) they are slightly different. ( however not so disimilar that the ctek wouldn't work.)

The technicians comments about it being a 12 volt charger are nonsense. The charging voltage varies between 11 and 13.6 volts depending on the point in the charging cycle.

 

[tscaptain]

https://www.optimate.co.uk/products/optimate-1-duo

Good for 13.2v lithium, according to the spec.

 

[BigCat]

Here is a bit more information.

LiFePO4 batteries are made up of several cell packs, nominal voltage is 3.2 to 3.3V so the 13.2V battery in the 992 will have 4 of these. The Lightweight battery option for a GT3 is also an LiFePO4 13.2V battery, there is no way this type of Lithium battery can manufactured with a 12V output, so as said above it’s all nonsense that there is no suitable charger. I personally think it’s a misinterpretation by the OPCs as throughout the charging section of the manual it refers to “the 12V Lithium battery” .

However, note that there is a real risk of damage using an “ordinary” CTEK Lead Acid battery charger because it can put out over 15.5 volts in the initial charge cycle if it detects a heavily sulphated LA battery. If this voltage was applied it will wreck an LiFePO4 battery.

So in my opinion, either the Porsche Charger or the CTEK Lithium XS will work for me, yes they have slightly different charge cycles but this maybe because the Porsche Charger can also be used in an LA charging mode which may have limited the scope of the design. This charger would be useful if you also want to use it on AGM batteries in another car and not just the Lithium battery.

In summary, I decided to buy the CTEK Lithium XS, as I don’t want the risk of inadvertently setting the wrong mode and it has the plug and socket connection which allows me to use a CTEK extension lead as well as either clamp connections or the cig lighter. The Porsche Charger looks like it has a fixed lead with a cig lighter plug on the end and so to use the clamp connections ( which you must for the Lithium battery) you have to use the supplied adapter.

Update

i just saw Alan‘s post after I uploaded mine so it looks like an even more cost effective alternative is available.

 

[Lancerlot]

12 volts is the standard automotive battery description for today’s vehicles, even though this a factually incorrect. []

Lead acid batteries have 6 cells, each with a voltage of 2.1, so a fully charged car battery has 12.6 volts.

At 12.4 volts, a car battery is 75% charged while at 12.2 volts it's 50% charged.

Regards,

[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]Clive[/font]

 

[abz2]

On washing the car last, noticed the inside of both the sports exhaust tips were showing early signs of corosion. Sent photos to dealer last week, car has gone in this afternoon for replacement and gave us a new Cayenne as a loan car. Can't fault the service.

 

[LRR_uk]

After thinking, "Great my car is finally working" (after two additional visits I've not bored you people with)...

Like Lozzermo above I've now recieved the following two messages this evening;

I've just sent these to my dealer principle who is based a few miles down the road requesting the car be booked again ASAP.

I'll keep you updated.

Lee.

 

[LRR_uk]

Well, 992 returned to dealership again for above 'Engine control fault' still waiting for an update on their diagnosis...

This time I have a 'just registered' 718 T with 15 miles on the clock;

Amazing the PDI didn't detected the one-touch drivers window doesn't work and (probably linked) everytime you press the keys unlock the drivers window goes down a bit but not back up, press it again and the window goes down a bit more leaving a nice gap for the rain to come in...

 

[LRR_uk]

Here's another update on some more visits to my local Porsche Dealership.

When I returned the car for the above "Engine Control Fault" error, I also complained there is a really bad rattle coming from the roof area (as mentioned on the other page the car had been returned numerous times for the sunroof failing to close).

They failed to find anything wrong that was causing the above error, "If it happens again bring it right back". Their automated system also sent me an email with this update;

I collected the car... I too couldnt hear the roof rattle because the whole sunroof was constantly squeaking! Needless to say it was booked back in!

During the few days waiting for the car to go back, the Night View Assist error re appeared twice more;

Finally, a different technician actually diagnosed the Night View Assist fault correctly (I've returned the car on 3 previous occassions for this fault). The technician a very helpful person who was at the Regional Club / Dealership Christmas Party where my friend and I had spent about 30 minutes talking with him about various Porsche things.... He brought out his laptop where a 'Porsche Technical Artical' explained this was not a fault, it was a known software issue where the various diagnostic systems boot up faster than the camera system and incorrectly display this error. The artical said "We will be releasing a software update by the end of 2019 to resolve this issue" FINALLY - although it was February 2020.

Taking two people from the dealership out one squashed in the back of the 992 they acknowledged the constant squeak that was obscuring the initial rattle that was also still present and that the car needed to be brought back in and this technician would handle everything from start to finish.

****** I also mentioned *****

I've noticed a funny noise when pulling away when initially getting in the car, the technician said "Yeah, I just heard that too" .... This was diagnosed as the door handle popup / retract mechanism failing!!! A new one was ordered from Germany - This doesn’t bode well for the long term ownership outside of warranty for the 992 community if this starts happening regularly!

Car back in for new door mechanism, track down the squeak/rattle AND a 'Major Software Update' which includes the fix for the 'Night View Assist' system, I decided not to wait for a Porsche courtesy car and went with a manual Q3;

The squeak was tracked down to the roof rubbers not being fitted properly!!! (they'd previously removed them multiple times) - refitted.

The rattle initially appeared to be something inside the roof console (again they'd removed it mutliple times and believe this activity had introduced the rattle) - replaced under warranty.

On collecting the car I was asked to take the technician out to see if we could still hear it.... It is still present, we went out for about an hours drive with the technician removing numerous pieces of trim in a effort to track it down. The rattle is like a bee buzzing constantly at various speeds between 30 and 70 (obviously it may be present at faster speeds []). The car is going back again tomorrow.

I also made an official compaint to the dealer principle after someone commented to me “Oh where’s your car now? it can’t possibly be back at the garage again?”, tooting up the car had been back with them for 53 days;

I've been told this has been escalated to PCGB, I'll keep you updated on any outcome.

Lee.

 

[LRR_uk]

OK, collected the car just now for the local Breakfast Meet on Sunday.

Car still making the noise and I've managed to record it on my phone, if you put the volume up you can hear it about 10 times over the course of the 1:30 minute video;

https://lrr.me/992rattle

It does it on acceleration, coasting and breaking, it has happened after one of the many recent visits to the OPC, any idea's before I return again on Monday morning?

Lee.