993 or 996
- Thread starter Diesel130
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Diesel130
New member
Richard,
Thanks. Have driven a couple of 996's and was impressed, yet to drive a 993. Can definately afford to buy / insure / service either well, but don't really want to be forking out 9K+ on a new engine for a 996. So current thinking is that I'll try and find a 996 that has just had a new engine. If I try a 993 and like it might go that way too. Maybe by the time I've dithered for so long I'll be able to afford a 996 3.6 version. (or a 996 turbo - can't believe they're down to about 45K already for nice looking examples). Damm, so much choice ... still no hurry, I have a nice fast, 220bhp italian coupe at the moment with only 26,000 miles on the clock (its just not a porsche!)
Thanks. Have driven a couple of 996's and was impressed, yet to drive a 993. Can definately afford to buy / insure / service either well, but don't really want to be forking out 9K+ on a new engine for a 996. So current thinking is that I'll try and find a 996 that has just had a new engine. If I try a 993 and like it might go that way too. Maybe by the time I've dithered for so long I'll be able to afford a 996 3.6 version. (or a 996 turbo - can't believe they're down to about 45K already for nice looking examples). Damm, so much choice ... still no hurry, I have a nice fast, 220bhp italian coupe at the moment with only 26,000 miles on the clock (its just not a porsche!)
Porker993
New member
Dear Diesel
With me it's an affair of the heart. Aircooled 911s are a lifelong obsession - I am a serial addict. No particular logic enters into the equation, I'm afraid. If you don't feel the passion I would have thought you'd be better off with a 996 which is more comfy, quicker, and probably sharper handling by all accounts.
With me it's an affair of the heart. Aircooled 911s are a lifelong obsession - I am a serial addict. No particular logic enters into the equation, I'm afraid. If you don't feel the passion I would have thought you'd be better off with a 996 which is more comfy, quicker, and probably sharper handling by all accounts.
Porker993
New member
ORIGINAL: MoC2S
I went round Donington with Steve Dolby, the Michelin Man, when he had a 996 ... there was lots of roll, tyres took a cruel pounding .... cheers, Maurice []
Hmm, interesting. I suppose that fits with the view that the 996 is more more of a "GT" than a sports car. I just got the impression from watching Top Gear etc. that 996s handled better than anything else on the road. Richard Hammond is a real 911 nut. I think I may have got confused with the GT3 though, which is a very different car by all accounts ...
Porker993
New member
I hope you enjoy your experience - let us know what you think. I would warn you though 993s are not exactly relaxing to drive, especially after my girlfriends Merc. Although the seats are excellent, the offset right hand drive driving position takes a bit of getting used to. Also the steering is d...ed heavy at low speeds and the clutch needs quite a prod. On the plus side, you get incredible feedback and once you learn how, it's great fun to fling through corners.
ORIGINAL: MoC2S
Not the last, I fear ... I went round Donington with Steve Dolby, the Michelin Man, when he had a 996 ... there was lots of roll, tyres took a cruel pounding .... bit of a barge, really, was glad to get back in my ancient moteur .... [
IMHO a 993 with stuffed Monroes would be a match .. [
cheers, Maurice [
No flame suit required Maurice [
], but with the M030 suspension the 996 is bl**dy firm, and I get very little body roll. I got more roll with the 993 on standard suspension. I find the front end to have a much more 'planted' feel than the 993, but I realise I am not comparing like-for-like. Matter of fact, the M030 was a bit too firm for me. I put standard shockers back on, which made it feel slightly more compliant but not a huge amount softer.
I think you'll know if you "˜have the passion' once you've driven the 993.
I'm biased (having previously had a 911 SC - a 1982er, which fired the passion - still miss it a bit) but for me the 993 offers the best mix of "˜traditional' 911 (their beauty, shape, form, sound and drive) and a nicer, more modern level of comfort.
What's more, the further I go in it, the more suprised I am at how comfortable it is and after a long drive, how fresh you still feel (whereas in the old SC, you'd know how far you'd driven when you got out!).
There are some good priced 996s about, but for me it's 993!
I'm biased (having previously had a 911 SC - a 1982er, which fired the passion - still miss it a bit) but for me the 993 offers the best mix of "˜traditional' 911 (their beauty, shape, form, sound and drive) and a nicer, more modern level of comfort.
What's more, the further I go in it, the more suprised I am at how comfortable it is and after a long drive, how fresh you still feel (whereas in the old SC, you'd know how far you'd driven when you got out!).
There are some good priced 996s about, but for me it's 993!
Ther 993 is an old car and its lineage back to the early cars, carrera/sc etc is very noticable when you drive one. I've got an SC and a 993 and for character the SC beets the 993 hands down, but the 993 is a bit easier to live with having a few creature comforts such as heated seats and air con etc etc.
But compared with a modern car the 993 is way outdated, I'm, lucky that both mine are occaisional use cars but the thought of using the 993 every day would not be appealing, so I would go for a 996 if I needed an every day driver
But compared with a modern car the 993 is way outdated, I'm, lucky that both mine are occaisional use cars but the thought of using the 993 every day would not be appealing, so I would go for a 996 if I needed an every day driver
OGiii
New member
The 996 is no BMW mate.
I asked the same questions before deciding on the 996. I wanted a 993 because of it's looks, heritage and the fact that I knew when I was looking to buy one 18mths ago that it made financial sense.
I ended up buying the 996 because when I drove the 993 I knew I couldn't live with it as a daily drive - they are chalk and cheese - one day I will own a 993 and a 968 for that matter but only when I'm driving them for fun, not when I have to drive one home from work after a crap day
I asked the same questions before deciding on the 996. I wanted a 993 because of it's looks, heritage and the fact that I knew when I was looking to buy one 18mths ago that it made financial sense.
I ended up buying the 996 because when I drove the 993 I knew I couldn't live with it as a daily drive - they are chalk and cheese - one day I will own a 993 and a 968 for that matter but only when I'm driving them for fun, not when I have to drive one home from work after a crap day
stuart tanner
Member
Crikey, anytimes a good time to drive a 993 isnt it. I look forward to driving mine, bit sad I guess but love the feel, retro looks, curves etc. Bit different to all them modern kinda cars out there. []
]
jacksonrj4098
New member
I had this decision to make last year. Took me weeks/months to decide. The key factor in my decision was the advice I got from the people in the know, the specialists and mechanics etc. Ask a porsche expert what working on a 996 and a 993 is like, and ask them where there money would go.
huw dolphin
New member
I'd think about the age of these cars - I've had lots of rust problems on my 96 993 which have cost and will continue to cost a fortune to sort. The 993 has also cost a fortune to run in terms of mechanical repairs and has not been very reliable. I bought it, by the way, from a well known independent - so I trusted their views to an extent. If I was buying again I'd probably take advantage of the much cheaper 964 prices or gone for a 996.
huw dolphin
New member
Maurice, a little more info about my car. I bought it in Jan 04 from 911 virgin - paid the non-warranty price and I suppose that's where I felt I was relying on the dealer's expertise. My choice ultimately. I didn't get a PPI and would do if I was buying from anywhere except a non-franchise dealer again. The dealer said that if I did suffer a failure with anything which cost over the extra £2k for a warranty then, if I paid the £2k, they would then treat it as a warranty claim which I thought was fair enough. I'll make it clear that I don't ascribe the problems I have had to the dealer but more to my mistake in going about the purchase in this way, believing the hype about Porsche quality and, I suppose my view that anything bought from a specialist would be just about the best quality around - how wrong I was.
I've had plenty of niggling problems but the main items from memory are:
May 04 DME relay failed and stranded me but took 2 weeks for the car to be moved and problem diagnosed
June 04 battery failed - stranded again
June 04 into 9M to look at a vibration that I'd just put up with since buying the car but which the dealer that sorted the DME relay said to me was unusual but couldn't diagnose. 9M found that the transmission tube - the driveshaft from back to front had snapped - effectively my C4 was a C2! No spares in the country this being a very rare failure I am told, which meant 10 weeks off the road waiting for the factory to provide the part. Cost inc labour over £2k.
Whilst at 9M they looked at a patch of rust on the sill - found it had likely been caused by an OPC fixing the door check strap and pressing the tool against the sill so metal was damaged and rust caused. Sills resprayed both sides with correct anti chip paint and very nice job too. Also had a new PU as i had scraped the underside of it on a kerb and it was cheaper to replace than repair - cost c£3k.
Sept 04 serviced - £750 One alloy replaced as 9M had noticed it was buckled - £500 for new wheel etc.
Also had air con checked and new condensors fitted at PCT and re-gassed £1,500 I think. One month on and no air con as gas had leaked out - have given up on this one given the damage to my wallet to date!
Sept 05 noticed a small rust bubble by the front windscreen. 9M showed how rust was coming in round front and rear windscreens under the rubber - full window out respray after taking all rust back. Plus service came to £3k.
(Branch fell on new paint on roof whilst driving home earlier this year and scratched it!!)
Brakes rebuilt by Dave Griffiths Racing (recommended btw) cost £600.
Also of course have had several tyres, another new battery after previous 'new' battery left me stranded. Alarm remote failed and left me stranded one cold night too.
So I now need to get the relatively newly painted roof sorted out, but a trip to the bodyshop is timely because I have a rust buble about 3 inches long by the seam in the drivers door shut and that looks expensive to sort. Rear bumper stays have gone and need replacing too. £££££?
So you will see I haven't exactly been enamoured by my 993 experience. Yes I have had some bad luck but I've also spent a lot of money on running repairs, sometimes to no effect eg aircon, sometimes due to faulty parts eg transmission tube. That, I have to say, I couldn't be sure was a fault when I bought the car and the cost of sorting it was just over what a warranty would have cost me plus my car was in bits when it was diagnosed so I bit the bullet and paid for it.
The rust issue would certainly put me off a 993 again though. My car was bought in Aberdeen - salty air - but has spent most of its life in Notts before I got it - I live inland. It's done 75k, so I hear what you say about the way the car may have been treated in the past but, for a galvanised body, I think it's weathered the years poorly. I saw plenty of 3.2 carrera's being rebuilt in my trips to 9M and the state of rust on those suggests that 993's will almost certainly follow them to the rebuild shop one day.
My car had a full franchise sevice history when I got it but not all the body inspection stamps were there - given Porsche's terrible record on customer service in light of anecdotal evidence and the RMS issue I didn't bother troubling them!
I've probably had enough of the car now and may sell it - of course each time I drive it I change my mind. I could get a new or nearly new 997 or go for a GT3, which are the cars that really interest me now, or if I've just got a bad one I might get over my prejudices and go 993 again, but probably I'd go for a basic slim C2 if anything, but that depends if I can get over my cynicism for the quality of Porsche's older products. Or, the million dollar Q, having spent so much on my own car do I keep it, spend the extra on sorting out the last couple of problems (!) and hopefully then get to enjoy a reliable 993 in great condition?
Sorry for the long post but it's a long story.
I've had plenty of niggling problems but the main items from memory are:
May 04 DME relay failed and stranded me but took 2 weeks for the car to be moved and problem diagnosed
June 04 battery failed - stranded again
June 04 into 9M to look at a vibration that I'd just put up with since buying the car but which the dealer that sorted the DME relay said to me was unusual but couldn't diagnose. 9M found that the transmission tube - the driveshaft from back to front had snapped - effectively my C4 was a C2! No spares in the country this being a very rare failure I am told, which meant 10 weeks off the road waiting for the factory to provide the part. Cost inc labour over £2k.
Whilst at 9M they looked at a patch of rust on the sill - found it had likely been caused by an OPC fixing the door check strap and pressing the tool against the sill so metal was damaged and rust caused. Sills resprayed both sides with correct anti chip paint and very nice job too. Also had a new PU as i had scraped the underside of it on a kerb and it was cheaper to replace than repair - cost c£3k.
Sept 04 serviced - £750 One alloy replaced as 9M had noticed it was buckled - £500 for new wheel etc.
Also had air con checked and new condensors fitted at PCT and re-gassed £1,500 I think. One month on and no air con as gas had leaked out - have given up on this one given the damage to my wallet to date!
Sept 05 noticed a small rust bubble by the front windscreen. 9M showed how rust was coming in round front and rear windscreens under the rubber - full window out respray after taking all rust back. Plus service came to £3k.
(Branch fell on new paint on roof whilst driving home earlier this year and scratched it!!)
Brakes rebuilt by Dave Griffiths Racing (recommended btw) cost £600.
Also of course have had several tyres, another new battery after previous 'new' battery left me stranded. Alarm remote failed and left me stranded one cold night too.
So I now need to get the relatively newly painted roof sorted out, but a trip to the bodyshop is timely because I have a rust buble about 3 inches long by the seam in the drivers door shut and that looks expensive to sort. Rear bumper stays have gone and need replacing too. £££££?
So you will see I haven't exactly been enamoured by my 993 experience. Yes I have had some bad luck but I've also spent a lot of money on running repairs, sometimes to no effect eg aircon, sometimes due to faulty parts eg transmission tube. That, I have to say, I couldn't be sure was a fault when I bought the car and the cost of sorting it was just over what a warranty would have cost me plus my car was in bits when it was diagnosed so I bit the bullet and paid for it.
The rust issue would certainly put me off a 993 again though. My car was bought in Aberdeen - salty air - but has spent most of its life in Notts before I got it - I live inland. It's done 75k, so I hear what you say about the way the car may have been treated in the past but, for a galvanised body, I think it's weathered the years poorly. I saw plenty of 3.2 carrera's being rebuilt in my trips to 9M and the state of rust on those suggests that 993's will almost certainly follow them to the rebuild shop one day.
My car had a full franchise sevice history when I got it but not all the body inspection stamps were there - given Porsche's terrible record on customer service in light of anecdotal evidence and the RMS issue I didn't bother troubling them!
I've probably had enough of the car now and may sell it - of course each time I drive it I change my mind. I could get a new or nearly new 997 or go for a GT3, which are the cars that really interest me now, or if I've just got a bad one I might get over my prejudices and go 993 again, but probably I'd go for a basic slim C2 if anything, but that depends if I can get over my cynicism for the quality of Porsche's older products. Or, the million dollar Q, having spent so much on my own car do I keep it, spend the extra on sorting out the last couple of problems (!) and hopefully then get to enjoy a reliable 993 in great condition?
Sorry for the long post but it's a long story.
Porker993
New member
Dear Huw - as far as I can see your problems have mostly been attributable to poor servicing, accidental damage, or neglect on the part of previous owners except for the "snapped front to rear driveshaft" issue which is unique in my experience.
You have certainly been very unlucky.
I am not sure how any of what you describe is attributable to poor 993 build quality, except the aforementioned "snapped front to rear driveshaft".
As you have said, it is vital to either know your stuff, or have a PPI done IMHO.
Hang on to the 993 - now you've fixed it, you know it makes sense.
With best wishes
Caveat emptor.
You have certainly been very unlucky.
I am not sure how any of what you describe is attributable to poor 993 build quality, except the aforementioned "snapped front to rear driveshaft".
As you have said, it is vital to either know your stuff, or have a PPI done IMHO.
Hang on to the 993 - now you've fixed it, you know it makes sense.
With best wishes
Caveat emptor.
huw dolphin
New member
Yes you don't need to tell me Mark!! I agree the driveshaft is unusual - at least that's what all the specialists tell me. It was so unusual that there were no spares around which meant waiting for a new one to be made and shipped over. Obviously that didn't make it a cheap spare part but hopefully some other 993 owners have benefitted as I understand a new batch were made up at that time.
BTW I drive my car quite gently so it hadn't been abused or tracked by me.
As for quality, my comment was to point out that maybe Porsches aren't quite 'hewn from granite' in the way that the specialist magazines might have one believe. There was another person posting on here recently about rust around the 993 windscreen and, as I mentioned, some of the older models are riddled with rust now despite the widely held belief that rust is not an issue post-galvanised bodyshells.
But yes - PPI it - or buy from a franchised dealer.
BTW I drive my car quite gently so it hadn't been abused or tracked by me.
As for quality, my comment was to point out that maybe Porsches aren't quite 'hewn from granite' in the way that the specialist magazines might have one believe. There was another person posting on here recently about rust around the 993 windscreen and, as I mentioned, some of the older models are riddled with rust now despite the widely held belief that rust is not an issue post-galvanised bodyshells.
But yes - PPI it - or buy from a franchised dealer.
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