997.2TT and very light front end

[RJKflyer]

Hello RJKFlyer. I can totally sympathize with your comments regarding the feel of the 997. I have a C2S gen 1 that handles much as you have described. I personally think you will never achieve the "feel" that you desire from the 997 in the way your Audi performs. Driving the 997 near the limit can feel sometimes like a leap of faith regarding the feedback you are getting. What I mean by that is if you don't commit 100% to pushing the chassis into a corner it feels indecisive and light, but push that little bit harder and the car WILL go where you point it. It comes alive. You sit there thinking where did that come from?. It's a very unusual driving experience and until you have done more miles in it I don't think you will be comfortable pushing into, and more importantly driving it out of corners with confidence. I had an Exige S before the porker and when I initially started pushing the C2S I immediately thought I had 4 flat tyres. At high speed the car seemed to be pivoting in the middle rocking from mild under steer to over steer, and in the slow corners the vagueness of feel and amount of lock applied was alarming. All normal, but something I would like to investigate and improve one day with an eye on getting better turn in. Plus I personally think a quicker rack might improve maters, gear it up a bit. My advice is, if you still have the Audi, completely stop driving it and concentrate on perfecting the more delicate art of Porsche driving. All the info is there, you just need to interpret it in a different manner. I hate to think what the new electric power steering feels like. Clench sphincter, close eyes and pray.

 

[Clewsey]

After driving an Exige myself before drving 911s, not a lot IMO comes close to the steering response you get. Maybe a GT3 /RS perhaps or a even a Caterham equals it. The 911 definitely does require time to become accustomed to its behavior but that's what makes it more of a challenge to drive and ultimately more satisfying after a spirited drive.

Once Chris had made the changes to my 2S I do recall experiencing a very high number of wide grins in and out of corners and indeed roundabouts []

ORIGINAL: Theo Prosthesis

Hello RJKFlyer. I can totally sympathize with your comments regarding the feel of the 997. I have a C2S gen 1 that handles much as you have described. I personally think you will never achieve the "feel" that you desire from the 997 in the way your Audi performs. Driving the 997 near the limit can feel sometimes like a leap of faith regarding the feedback you are getting. What I mean by that is if you don't commit 100% to pushing the chassis into a corner it feels indecisive and light, but push that little bit harder and the car WILL go where you point it. It comes alive. You sit there thinking where did that come from?. It's a very unusual driving experience and until you have done more miles in it I don't think you will be comfortable pushing into, and more importantly driving it out of corners with confidence. I had an Exige S before the porker and when I initially started pushing the C2S I immediately thought I had 4 flat tyres. At high speed the car seemed to be pivoting in the middle rocking from mild under steer to over steer, and in the slow corners the vagueness of feel and amount of lock applied was alarming. All normal, but something I would like to investigate and improve one day with an eye on getting better turn in. Plus I personally think a quicker rack might improve maters, gear it up a bit. My advice is, if you still have the Audi, completely stop driving it and concentrate on perfecting the more delicate art of Porsche driving. All the info is there, you just need to interpret it in a different manner. I hate to think what the new electric power steering feels like. Clench sphincter, close eyes and pray.

 

[RJKflyer]

Humm, I think I may need to make a phone call"¦ If I got Chris to set my car up, is it necessary to first purchase any adjustable arms/bolts etc or is everything on the car adjustable enough to make a difference? Probably a silly question I know. Thank you.

O yes, totally agree, once dialled into the 911 on a favourite road I don't think anything comes close to the excitement of getting it right.

 

[tscaptain]

Hmmm.. coming in a bit late on this discussion but as I also own the type in question I might as well add my 2p! As Alex said earlier the rear does settle quicker than the front but more significantly in the early stages the effect of the front suspension settling is to increase the toe out - which perfectly describes the wandering effect that the OP mentions. Then throw in differing cambers, non-symmetrical toe at the rear (non centreline thrust) and too much camber on the rear (which is a classic ex-factory set up for a "safe" understeer) and you have a very "less than stable car" beneath your bum. The PC will set up the car within factory tolerances. If you have a good PC (like mine) they will do a very accurate job. If you want the car set up so that it drives with stability and gives you the "planted" feel you seek then go to a specialist in the first instance. CG is over 200 miles from me and worth every penny in fuel and the £300 to get the job done properly. If the OP's car is as bad as it sounds the difference should be pretty remarkable! []

 

[Clewsey]

You don't need to as the car has enough adjustability already.

ORIGINAL: Theo Prosthesis

Humm, I think I may need to make a phone call"¦ If I got Chris to set my car up, is it necessary to first purchase any adjustable arms/bolts etc or is everything on the car adjustable enough to make a difference? Probably a silly question I know. Thank you.

O yes, totally agree, once dialled into the 911 on a favourite road I don't think anything comes close to the excitement of getting it right.

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Clewsey

You don't need to as the car has enough adjustability already.

Depends on what you are looking for Simon. I have adjustable and stiffer ARBs on mine and the difference is most noticeable (in a +ve kind of way[]) However, for most sensible people I would agree that there is enough scope for adjustment in the standard car to get very good results.

 

[cdmci]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Hmmm.. coming in a bit late on this discussion but as I also own the type in question  I might as well add my 2p!  As Alex said earlier the rear does settle quicker than the front but more significantly in the early stages the effect of the front suspension settling is to increase the toe out - which perfectly describes the wandering effect that the OP mentions.  Then throw in differing cambers, non-symmetrical toe at the rear (non centreline thrust) and too much camber on the rear (which is a classic ex-factory set up for a "safe" understeer) and you have a very "less than stable car" beneath your bum.  The PC will set up the car within factory tolerances.  If you have a good PC (like mine) they will do a very accurate job.  If you want the car set up so that it drives with stability and gives you the "planted" feel you seek then go to a specialist in the first instance.  CG is over 200 miles from me and worth every penny in fuel and the £300 to get the job done properly.  If the OP's car is as bad as it sounds the difference should be pretty remarkable! []

I had exactly the same symptons as you describe and exactly the same mis-alignment issues as well. Chris dialled them all out during a single morning. Although some of the adjustments could only be seen on the equipment, the rear wheels moved a shocking (and easily visible) amount on one side in order to bring things back into balance. Even though everything was within the Porsche tolerances (just) to begin with.

 

[Faz]

ORIGINAL: Oggy

Hmmm, I'm really curious now as to whats so bad about the handling of your car ??

Perhaps (as already suggested) this is your first 911 and you just haven't tuned into it yet ??

Rear engine does cause "bobbing" of front end under accelleration, tendency to understeer if you go too fast into corners (as the weight in the back is trying to push the front wide...but also gives unbeatable traction out of corners and amazing tactile steering. Secret is always slow(er) in and FAST FAST FAST out [8D] These are the things that people generally love about 911s...takes a while to get used to but amazingly satisfying when you do !

Did you ever read the stories in the 80s / early 90s of city yuppies getting a huge bonus....going straight out and buying a 911....then going straight through a hedge backwards ??? [] Reason was....too fast into corner....aagghhhh understeer....lift off....back snaps round like a pendulum and it's topiary here we come ! Modern 911s still have this in their DNA but it's been calmed and sanitised over the yrs with chassis improvements and PASM / PSM / dynamic engine mounts etc etc. Is why some people still love the older 911s more than the newer ones...more of a challenge but more rewarding in their eyes.

So I'm guessing that you just haven't got used to this yet (I can't believe it feels as dangerous as you make out...unless it's 2 halves welded together [][])...and with 500BHP to play with, it's very easy to come into corners too quickly []

Just take a while to get used to it....try the slow-in (NO LIFT OFF), fast out approach, it's addictive and very effective. Then if you still un-convinced, get the GEO checked for sure. If still not satisfied, drive a GT3 (turn-in is simply incredible)...if still not got it...there is no hope for you I'm afraid []

Oggy is completely "bob on" here, ALL 911's "bob" at the front end, the rear wheel drive cars even more so due to the lighter front end. "Bobbing" is most noticeable on the straights, it should be "planted" on the twisty bits as the weight shifts and the car digs in, this is where custom geometry settings help.

You could ask your OPC for a drive in another turbo so you can establish that your car is no different.

 

[garyw]

As a little bit of an update, I dropped into see Chris and we have organised a Centre Gravity open day taking place for the 997 register taking place on 10th March (tbc)

garyw

 

[glamdring]

If he needs a car to 'demonstrate' on, he can use mine (not that I think there's anything wrong with it but you never know...)

 

[garyw]

I'll see what he requires Matt []

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=677329..

 

[jonathanw]

Just had my car worked on by Cris (Centre Gravity). The drive home showed me how badly behaved it was before even though when tested it was within Porsche tolerances.Chris has transformed the handling and was worth every bit of the £300. He does not advertise and relies on word of mouth. He is booked up for ages and I understand that Porsche OPCs ask him for advice!