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Anti Roll Bars

John Sims

John Sims

PCGB Admin
Member
Having ended up playing with my suspension I'm now into swapping anti roll bars.

I currently have a lovely 968 (m030) 19mm adjustable rear anti roll bar sitting in my study and am reving up to order a hollow 30mm 968 (m030) front.

As a matter of interest, I've been through PET to see what options are available, and it would seem to be as follows:-

FRONT
20mm (944 86) Part No 944 343 707 00
21.5mm (944 87 & S) Part No 944 343 707 01
23mm (944 86 M030/404) Part No 944 343 706 00
24mm (Turbo -86) Part No 944 343 706 02
25.5mm (944,S & Turbo 87- M404) Part No 944 343 706 04
26.8mm (944 M030/758 & 968) Part No 944 343 706 05
30mm hollow (968 M030) Part No 944 343 706 30


REAR
14mm (944) Part No 477 511 411 A
16mm (968) Part No 477 511 411
18mm (944/968 M030/249) Part No 477 511 413
19mm adjustable 968 M030/480) Part No 944 333 701 01
20mm (944) Part No 477 511 415

'Tis all pretty exciting stuff, but it would seem that the only way to know what your car is fitted with is to get under there and measure it.
 
Interesting...I just had a quick peek in Peter Morgan's 924/944 book (published 1990), which lists the following:

FRONT
20mm (standard) 21.5mm (option) - All 944
23mm - 924 Carrera GT
* Interestingly, no mention of the bigger sizes.

REAR
14mm - 944 / 924 Turbo
16mm - 924 Carrera GT
18mm - 944S
20mm - 944 Turbo S
21mm - 944 Turbo Cup

Make of that what you will!
 
Hi John I'm hoping to install the 968 M030 ARB's next year also. If you already have the 19mm then I think the only sensible option is to fit the matching front M030 30mm hollow.

The full list of bit's you'll need is:

944-343-706-30 Front Bar, 30mm, hollow
944-333-701-01 Rear Bar, 19mm, solid
951-343-794-05 Front Bar Inner Bushings (2 ea)
951-343-793-31 Front Bar Outer Bushings (2 ea)
951-343-795-01 Front Drop-Link Donut Bushings (4 ea)
964-333-792-00 Rear Bar Bushings (2 ea)
N-012-449-1 Front Bar End Circlip (2 ea)

When I last contacted the OPC's you could get the whole lot for around £300 inc vat after your PCGB discount
 
Hi Paul,

I go along with your comments and agree with all of your part numbers.

Intialy I thought I wouldn't bother with drop link donuts but then at £1.60 each it seemed silly not to get them at the same time.

Here's a thing, PET and Lindsey Racing all quote 964-333-792-00 for the Rear Bar Bushings (2 ea). When you get the bushes they seem much too small for the bar with an unmounted clear internal diameter of 17mm. This seems very tight for a 19mm bar and dosen't go round the bar if you try to put the two together without the bracket. Is this right?[8|]
 
New 30mm anti roll bar kit should arrive today and the second hand wishbones and front struts by the end of the week.

I was told late Turbo and S2 front struts and springs are the same. Is this right? I'm just about to interogate PET.

You know how it is when you get the "well while it is all in pieces.." bit I was thinking lowered front springs would be a good idea [;)]
 
Late Turbo and S2 struts may be the same, but aren't 220 Turbo struts different around the brake calliper mounts? Or are you fitting 250 brakes?

I say this because Bob Watson told me that Pete Crosthwaite (where is he these days?) would need new struts if I sold him my 250 brakes a couple of years ago.
 
I think that

Early Turbos and most S2's have the same diameter springs / platforms

I think M030 250BHP Turbos had a conical spring narrower at the bottom to clear the bigger brakes.

1990 on Turbos had smaller diameter springs (Same rates as M030)the same diameter as fitted to 968's. This was also fitted to late S2's with the MO31 option (turbo running gear)

So no, most S2 springs are different (larger diameter) than late turbo ones. I believe the dampers have different rates and the spring seats are definately different due to the different diameter springs.

Euro car parts sold me S2 ones (as suitable for the turbo) and I had to return them,

Tony
 
I fitted 968CS springs to my '89 S2 with no suspension option and they went straight on. I also had springs from Need for Speed that were listed as Turbo but were too big a diameter. What they should have been listed as was non-Turbo, but I think the S2 spring at least is the same, based on the 968CS one fitting.
 
Thanks for your thoughts guys. Strewth, isn't this complicated?

but aren't 220 Turbo struts different around the brake calliper mounts? Or are you fitting 250 brakes?
Click to expand...

I have 250 brakes on my 220 car - the brakes are different but fit to the hub assembly not the strut. I needed a conversion block to fit the later brakes as the bolts are parallel to the disc (like big reds) not perpendicular, mounted through little ears, as are the originals.

Re: Springs and Struts

I asked the breaker for late model struts. When I phoned today to check it transpired that they couldn't date the car as the number plates had been removed and the VIN numbers destroyed for insurance purposes. Of course I believe them!?!

Any road up, according to PET there are 10 different springs for 944s marked:-

blue - 944
white - 944S
yellow - Turbo/944S M474
red - Pre 87 944 M030
white & blue - Post 87 944/944S M030
white & yellow Post 87 Turbo M030, & S2 M030, 89-90 Turbo
violet - S2
turquoise Post 89 S2
beige 90-91 S2
grey Post 90 Turbo

My second hand struts have grey markings which (apparently) means they are from a post 90 Turbo. Good start, but the plot thickens.....

As the struts are off I might just as well get lowering springs whilst I'm about it thinks I, like you do.

Phoned Porscheshop - "...got any lowering springs for a late Turbo?"

"No problem sir all Turbos are the same"

"Are you sure? I don't think the late ones are the same as the early ones."

"Oh no Sir, they are all the same." Funny thinks I as Stuttgart Connection only do springs for post 89 Turbos. Any road up, they are in the post so, come the weekend, we will see. I'd put money on them not fitting myself.
 
Man I've got a headache now [&:]

It strikes me that very few UK suppliers really know ours cars 100% especially on the suspension side of things. Looking at Rennlist in the States, it does seem that Paragon and Pelican do know. I would tend to think that Porscheshop have got it wrong with their one size fits all comment, I hope I'm wrong though John. It might be worth calling Bert Gear for advice as you'll only get a one word answer on Titanic [:D]
 
If it eases your mind, my -35mm springs came from Porscheshop as nobody else knew what they were talking about
 
Just checked some old mails and the Techart springs I was originally supplied (S2 and early Turbo fitment were approx 110mm dia across from wire centre to centre I sold them to an S2 owner ('92model I think) who has them fitted.

The correct ones that fit my car, 1990 Turbo and 968s (according to the TUV documentation) are approx 95mm dia centre of wire to centre of wire.

I don't know if some S2's had the smaller diameter springs though - maybe they did.

Tony
 
Thanks for that Tony & Fen,

Have measured the springs supplied by the breakers, they are approx 110mm dia which would tie up with Tony's wire centre to wire centre dim.

As my second hand springs are marked Grey, and should be off a late Turbo, I shall now interogate PET to see if there is any corrolation between 944 & 968 springs. Perhaps Tony has unusual front struts?

By the time I've mated 968 M030 Anti roll bars with 220 rear torsion bars and shocks, unknown front struts and (hopefully) lowered front springs of unknown rating I will have a car that either handles like it is on rails or (more likely) like a complete dog. Fun, isn't it?
 
Definitely fun for us sitting at a computer screen while you complete the research for us[:D]

Are you going to re-install everything at the same time or in stages? I'd be interested to hear what difference just the 968 M030 ARB's make as that is what I plan to do this year (if I ever get some cash together)
 
I remembered that my original springs were out in the garage measuring outside to outside is approx 104mm

Sp454670697.jpg
 
centre to centre (or inside to outside as in the pic, its easier to measure) they are 93ish.
I don't think there is anything special about my dampers (struts), I replaced them at the same time as the springs, Euro car Parts supplied the incorrect ones, they were labelled with Porsche part numbers which when I checked PET where listed as S2, these were for larger diameter springs but on the euro car parts web site/catalogue were incorrectly listed as suitable for turbo. My OPC ordered the correct ones as listed on PET these had smaller diameter spring perches to match my springs. If you are interested I have the part numbers somewhere - they should be stamped on your damper units (struts).

Tony (good luck)

P.S. 86 oval dash lux's have different struts from 87 on oval dash lux's but only slightly [&:]

Yw685946638.jpg
 
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