Anyone NOT had an engine problem?

Guest · Feb 6, 2005

I'm afraid I have to concur with Scouser on this one. I agree much of the posting across the forums on this subject has gone OTT but I also believe that "out of nothing, comes nothing."

'Porsche', I believe, review the postings on some of these forums to ascertain the general views and opinions of its customers - and so if we all kept quiet about our dissatisfactions, they would naturally assume everything to be all OK, which it clearly isn't.

IMO, given the continued RMS hassle Scouser has endured, Porsche should replace the engine free of charge and without further ado, since it's patently obvious that that is the root cause of the failures.

By all accounts, in the US, this would have already been done a long time ago under warranty, so why should we here in the UK be any different? [>:]

Peter_Bull · Feb 7, 2005

Just to keep the thread going with its original intention.

Sept 2000 C2 Cab - 2400 miles - no leaks. But then again I woudn't expect any at this mileage.

Seriously thinking of an extended warranty as its currently is not covered.

Guest · Feb 7, 2005

Well said concept. If my car had been in the US it would have all been sorted under warranty by now. They get 4 years warranty in the US....yes FOUR years. And to add to that, they have a policy in the US to replace RMS plagued engines FOC even if out of warranty. Basically, they go out on a limb to look after their customers.

Richard, sorry I hajacked the thread. Didn't mean to but it was too tempting

The fact is that for this Forum users, the RMS issue has touched so many and that's why this thread isn't as prolific as the RMS thread(s). Either they have had engine problems (such as RMS) or they don't want to tempt fate by saying they haven't.

MikeO, the bloody thing has indeed been cursed. I would love to cut my losses on the car if it were realistically practical. But how would you go about selling it if it was your car all things considered. I mean what value would you place on it. Fact is, there have ben two serious issues gearbox & engine. The gearbox issue is sorted. The engine one is, well, ongoinging. But the car still runs like a dream and depsite its problems I love her to bits. I have said this before, the problem is NOT the car, it's Porsche UK's & PAG's attitude and stinking policy to wash over this RMS problem. My car can very easily be fixed.
Finally, what makes you think that a "carefully inspected" 996 won;t have an RMS problem the second I drove it off the OPC forcourt?

Peter Bull, man that is seriously low miles for a 2000 model! Yes get the extended warranty.......ASAP!

Richard_Hamilton · Feb 7, 2005

ORIGINAL: Scouser
Nigel, the only way "Porsche experts" will get a chance to figure it out is if they get my RMS plagued engine to play with. But since PUK will not replace my engine FOC (they want 50% with a cost to me of £4,500) so this won't happen............. They have made their suggestion that the only thing that will fix the RMS problem for good in my 996 is a replacement engine. But as I have already said above, it will cost me a small mortgage. I will have to live with a leaking RMS since I simply can't afford £4,500.......and there will be no guarantee that the replacement will be RMS trouble free either!

Berny,

Just a Catch 22 thought - Your car is probably the most publicised problem 996 in the World (a rare honour), and as such is probably worth next to nothing. £4500 would make it worth market value.

I just can't believe the stupidity of your OPC to actually replace the RMS 6 times in a year. At an average of 2200 miles per seal it must have been obvious that your particular engine has a problem far worse than the 'average' problem engine. I assume that your car was out of warranty when the RMS first reared its ugly head, and that they have been trying to wriggle out of it ever since. The kicker is that the 6 OPC's warranty claims to PGB would have paid for at least half of a new engine!

I also can't believe PAG for releasing the 997/987 with the same engine. The RMS has been a known issue for years, and they had a perfect opportunity to introduce a redesign and stop the problem from perpetuating.

What I think we have to accept is that Porsche is now a volume manufacturer and no longer a specialist manufacturer. Their 1 billion Euro profit is the result of charging specialist prices for a volume product. The only question is how long it will take the average punter to realise this, and for Wendolin's policies to have flushed Porsche's hard-earned kudos down the pan?

There, that's got the thread even more off track! [

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Guest · Feb 7, 2005

Richard, no doubt my car is well known for its probems but I am sure it's worth more than £4500! How did you come to that figure? For starters all I have to do is get the new engine fitted and it will be worth just as much as anyone elses for the model year. In fact maybe more as it will have both new gearbox, engine, clutch and header tank all with warranty.
But the issue is not what it's worth. I own my Porsche outright so I am one of the lucky ones. The only outlay is
upkeep. Apart from the gearbox it's been a very cheap car to run. It's also a great fun-factor car being a cab and all.
It was and always has been a car for the long term for me. I hope to get 150,000 miles and much more from it. So value
is of no concern. It amazes me that I am the only one not chicken enough to kick up a fuss about the RMS issue. I sometimes get the impression that everyone wants me to shut up about it. But if I don't keep up the fight who will? I fight for both me and everyone else here.

Anyway, your are right in every respect in regard to Porsche's attitude though. No doubt about it they have lost me as a future Porsche owner in regards to future purchases.....whenever that will be. Maybe in years to come I will look into the AMV8 or something along those lines when the prices drop and they are a few years old (and they don't seem to have serious problems). By then Porsche will have changed from a specialist car company to just another family car manufacturer. But one thing for sure, I am bitter about Porsche not the car. I love the car and I am not about to sell it in a hurry. I am looking forward to the big Spain trip RMS or not its going [

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NicD · Feb 7, 2005

Richard,

while I can see your reasoning, I have to say that after a three hour rather detailed factory tour last Thursday, I can say that Porsche are NOT a volume manufacturer. The level of detail and excellence in their production line is incredible.

BUT why have they chosen not to fix this RMS problem and why hasn't the publicity killed them?

Answer is (I believe), the high level of goodwill in the market, and the fact that most/all other manufacturers suffer similar sorts of problems. For example, I was told that Mercedes and BMW had shut their line down for a week while an electrical problem in a sub assembly was rectified.

Andrew Killington · Feb 7, 2005

ORIGINAL: Scouser

Richard, no doubt my car is well known for its probems but I am sure it's worth more than £4500! How did you come to that figure?

half the cost of a new engine[8|]
Andrew

garyandjanet · Feb 7, 2005

its good to see a thread get hijacked again by the few.

Never mind it just show how the minorty view point comes across lounder then the majorty.

Richard_Hamilton · Feb 7, 2005

Berny

I obviously didn't make myself clear. I meant that if you were to spend £4500 on (half the cost of) a new engine then it would restore its value to the current market value as you said. At the present time, however, I would suggest that you would have a very hard time selling it - albeit that you don't want to.

If you are going to keep the car to 150000 miles, then that's about 15 years at your current rate. (41000 in 4 years). The AMV8 (not yet on the market) should have finished its production run about 10 years before that, so there should be some bargains on the market [

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Porsche have the capability of fixing this problem, which was not an issue on any of their previous flat-six designs. The GT3 and Turbo engines are both water cooled versions of older designs, so why can't they apply this technology to the 996/986/997/987? Probably a cost issue, but I feel it will be their downfall if they don't rectify it soon. They can't go on producing something with an inherent flaw and continue to maintain their excellent reputation for reliability and 'useability'.

Nic

The fact that Porsche are diversifying so much with the Cayenne and the forthcoming 4-door Saloon is a clear indication that they are trying to break into the BMW and Mercedes market, and moving away from the niche that they used to occupy so well.

Guest · Feb 8, 2005

ORIGINAL: Scouser
But they have told me "in clear terms" they "will not" replace the seal again.

Berny

At last you have something positive to work with - may I suggest you pop along to your local Trading Standards and see what they have to say about a garages refusal to rectify work they have done should it prove still to be faulty and therefore not fit for purpose. As I see it the courts are the only way this matter is going to be resolved and the sooner someone sticks their neck out the sooner we all might get the benefit[

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Burying heads in the sand - alternatively crossing fingers everytime we go out is something that should have been left where it belongs - in the last century.

Tool Pants · Feb 8, 2005

6 replacement seals. You Brits hold the record. My Boxster friend Jean only had 5 seals put in then Porsche gave up trying to keep the original engine from leaking. Then Porsche put in 3 rebuilt engines, and each had a vibration problem they could not figure out. So a 4th replacement engine, this time new, was put in. Yanks hold the record for number of engine replacements.

Of course if the 4th replacement engine leaks there would be a tie.

To keep this on track. My antique January 1997 does not leak oil and my engine is the original. It does leak power steering fluid from the rack seals, but that is not an uncommon problem with the early power steering racks. Jeff

Guest · Feb 9, 2005

ORIGINAL: garyandjanet

its good to see a thread get hijacked again by the few.

Never mind it just show how the minorty view point comes across lounder then the majorty.

Shouldn't this be in with the ' my typing is crop' thread?[

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carrera4boy · Feb 11, 2005

Scouser,

Have you tried Watchdog?

Si

Laurence Gibbs · Feb 11, 2005

Nic
I think the message IS slowly getting out. At present it's a trickle but once the press get hold of it (and they are bound to eventually) then Porsche sales are going to suffer. I think a good representation of this is in current residuals for cars over the two to three years old bracket (out of warranty)and as the message gets out there going to drop further.
I think Porsche are being very short sighted by leaving the problems unaddressed for so long. If not carefull they are going to be left with a black hole in the traditional used car sales that help to fuel the new cars. What then? Take a look also at general sales figures for both Boxster and 911, whilst at present two new models have created a short term demand, overall sales of both models have been down over the past few years. The Cayenne has been "bailing" Porsche out.
There may be absolute precision within the factory and there is no doubt that the way in which the cars are built is of the very highest order but the problem is that the engines and a large majority of the car is now built down to a cost.

Tool Pants · Feb 11, 2005

A bit of trivia you Brits may not know. If you have been around a while you know in the mid 90s Porsche was not doing well financially, and was at risk for being taken over by a larger company. The then new Boxster was going to save the company and keep it independent.

Boxster model years 1997 and 1998 only had a 2 year warranty. Our 4 year warranty started in 1999. I started Boxstering in 1999. There were issues with the early cars and it is a very competive market in the US. A 2 year warranty is substandard in the US. A warranty is a big selling point in the US. Porsche went to 4 years.

Now it is the Cayenne keeping Porsche afloat.

Andrew Killington · Feb 11, 2005

Laurence
I'm sure the press are aware of the RMS issue; it has featured fairly regularly in the Honest John column, and also in the monthly Porsche motoring mags and indeed EVO mag
regards
Andrew

Guest · Feb 11, 2005

I am right in saying the 996 Turbo doesn't suffer random engine failures and RMS?

blueSL · Feb 11, 2005

Well, I only came back to Porsche in November, thinking all would be well. I'm finding the 911 an aged lumpy anachronism, so as soon as I can put myself in an Aston Martin, I'm outa here. The hit I'll take on moving my C4S on doesn't bear thinking about!

Guest · Feb 11, 2005

I like the 996 shape and size and but don't like the horror stories of Engine Failure, RMS doesn't worry me it can be fixed fairly cheaply relative to the cost of the car. but with this in mind I am going to trading my C2 in for a Turbo as I beleive this to have a different engine and doesn't suffer the same random issue's.