Are we really the poor relations...?

[craiginuk]

What Andy W said. Stop talking about it and drive it! []. I think a good thing to do with any non daily driver is look at cost per mile over ownership. You can spend all you want on modifications etc but if the mileage is not ticking over you're not reaping the benefits. My turbo is strictly a toy. I've owned it for going on 3 yrs in the summer. During that time i have done about 9000 miles and spent about £1000 a year on improvements (bodywork and fixing some known faults as well as belts etc)

I think this is good value for me when i consider the time I've spent behind the wheel. Sorry, I've gone off topic but I think it's a good way to judge what a car, poor relative or otherwise, is really providing for you. I would be gutted if most of my mileage was driving to and from a Porsche garage. I guess that's just me being tight []

 

[edh]

I've got 2 poor relations - 944 and the Boxster - both great cars, both looked down on.

I'm really getting to like the Boxster now - it was great at cadwell on Tuesday, I could really chuck it through the slower stuff - Hall bends, Mountain and it was well balanced through Coppice/Charlies (I'm nearly getting that right now). That's a standard car, just with fresh m030 and a Sparco seat.

But when you look at it, there's a massive heirarchy in 911's, with the 996 trailing along in last place (I quite fancy an early 996C2).

Just be happy our cars are great performance bargains

 

[CarreraRSR]

A Porsche catalogue from a Porsche dealer. And yep, its got Porsches in it of various flavours!!!

Funny thing is the fast beetles are out numbered in model count and actual numbers sold!!

 

[MartinRS2K]

ORIGINAL: amrbose14

I was just showing my 3 year old son the current state of my 944 (sans front bumper in the garage). He suggested I sell it and buy a Porsche... I haven't quite got the indoctrination right!

It's difficult... all his toy Porsches are 911s except for one boxter. Unfortunately there is some social comment in this somewhere. Anyway, I bought one because I wanted a good drive that I stood a chance of not crashing. So I would not swap, despite my son's misguided advice.

Keep working on him.

My daughter is 4 next month and whenever we are out she tells her friends that her Daddy drives a Porsche []

I also have her supporting Manchester United and whenever the football is on she says are we winning today Daddy (unfortunately I am unable to tell her yes this season) []

 

[T3rra]

Here's where I stand on this. I couldn't care less if the car wasn't a porsche it's the shape off the car that I want. Im often reluctant to tell new people I own a porsche. am find my self more in to older 911 but it would have to be 964 rs or 930. Both are lot more money. If I had half that money would spent in on 944

To everyone else I know who don't know shot about cars iv got an old cheap porsche and i couldn't care less. Iv got a car I wanted for myself not a car to express or show others. I don't mind other model drivers I I find them a very split mind frame, some will show you plenty off interested and respect others will try and race you to prove there's is better. I don't mind a little fun but it's nice to show a bit off respect b4 or after. To at least no that's what's happening.

But I'm guessing most are driving straight to the opc to see what's wrong with there car as they couldn't pass or got over taken by an old 944. I get plenty off comment from strangers, yesterday I had a guy run across the road just to tell me how nice it was.

 

[Neil Haughey]

I must have said the same following thing every year for the past decade but its worth saying again whenever this subject comes up.

If our cars were made by almost anyone else other than Porsche they would be worth 2x to 3x what they go for. The hilarious thing about the Audi connection and connotations (which used to be a common swipe at the 944 years ago) is that if the 944 had the Audi rings on the bonnet they would be £20K to £30K cars now given the mental money UR quattros go for despite their huge dynamic failings.

Having said all that I have a terrible itch for an old air cooled 911, I have slowly fallen for them over the years but bugger me they have become so stupidly expensive now I probably never will take that plunge. A 996 C4S for sub £20K though pulls at the ole desire strings a lot, a friend of mine has a mint condition one and despite never really desiring one in concept the reality of the car is hugely desirable to me.

 

[George Elliott]

Wide range of comments but also a broad understanding that a 944 addresses many theoretical weakness of the rear engine layout.

But there is another school where the weaknesses of the rear engine layout offer a challenge and even certain advantages such as traction, turn-in, noise, looks, feel (steering / pedals / view of the wing tops [8D], offset driving position) which on the right day make a 911 a truly memorable and addictive car.

For real world general use a 944 is so much more practical, but it retains many Porsche Rear Engine traits, transaxle = traction, rear torsion bars = long travel, comfortable suspension, aluminium block = good turn-in, mechanical linkage = nice gear change, hydraulic clutch = easy leg work compared to omega spring 915 box, Proper brakes = no inside front lock-up on wet (and often dry) roundabout entry, heater & de-mister = you can see out more of the time, discrete appearance = you can overtake without sounding like a banshee, and then add in the 951 effect : LSD Standard, Air con standard, 250bhp as opposed to 231 of the equivalent 911, more fuel efficient, ceramic exhaust valve seats, water cooled turbo, turbo cooling pump, 9" rear wheels on '88 951 S/Rose before 911 Carrera, OK the 951 was more expensive than the 3.2 Carrera,

Fast forward 15 years, 951 can be tuned to huge levels and cope with reliability and chassis. values are rock bottom, bargain of the century.

Poor relations........don't think so Pete.

But i admit to a soft spot for rear engined Porsches.

George
944t

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

I must have said the same following thing every year for the past decade but its worth saying again whenever this subject comes up.

If our cars were made by almost anyone else other than Porsche they would be worth 2x to 3x what they go for. The hilarious thing about the Audi connection and connotations (which used to be a common swipe at the 944 years ago) is that if the 944 had the Audi rings on the bonnet they would be £20K to £30K cars now given the mental money UR quattros go for despite their huge dynamic failings.

Having said all that I have a terrible itch for an old air cooled 911, I have slowly fallen for them over the years but bugger me they have become so stupidly expensive now I probably never will take that plunge. A 996 C4S for sub £20K though pulls at the ole desire strings a lot, a friend of mine has a mint condition one and despite never really desiring one in concept the reality of the car is hugely desirable to me.

Neil, I often agree with you but not on this occasion!

An Audi 944 would still not be worth anywhere near £20-30k! The 944 is an underrated car (or bargain depending on your point of view) but it cannot match the game changing Quattro. The Quattro is responsible for a complete change of philosophy for rally cars for one thing. I have owned a couple of 944s (2.7 and a turbo) , race a 924S and still own an Ur Quattro and it's the latter that's the keeper. And it's probably only worth £10k. I loved my 944s and only sold the turbo due to pressure from SWMBO but in the real world I can drive the Quattro quicker everywhere than the 944 and especially in marginal or worse conditions. Huge dynamic failings? I don't recognise that of my MB model. Sure, the architecture isn't perfect but compared to a 911 it's fantastic.

I still want another 944t or 968 but only in addition to the Quattro not instead of, and the only 911 I would consider would be a 996 turbo4. I just don't want to have to concentrate that hard to drive a road car as I would have to drive a 2wd 911.

The funny thing is that on track my 924S race car feels light, agile and really controllable, inspiring lots of confidence. It could do with yet more power but I have no doubt that I enjoy driving it more than I would a 911. Unfortunately I haven't ever driven a Quattro race car but would love to (and I'd pray for rain)!

 

[carreraboy]

Hopefully there will be a rare pair of 944 turbo cup's at Brands, even chassis 1 the first ever cup car .....

 

[GlennS]

ORIGINAL: Ex Skyline

am I asking too much for my car at 10k?
Jon' Mitchell reckons 12k is nearer to it and, I trust Jon's judgement on all things Porsche.

No, you're probably not asking too much but I think you'll need to wait a long time for the right buyer to come along. 944 buyers seem to fall into two main categories, those who want the car to be "standard" or close to it and those who like to modify. Those who like to modify seem to enjoy the modifying process and getting a car to their individual specification and taste, perhaps even more so than driving the car. I suspect the market for a pre-modified car, no matter how well done, is fairly small.

As to the "are we regarded as poor relations" question, there are undoubtedly some people who hold that opinion. I honestly don't care about their opinion. I have the Porsche I want; if I'd wanted a 911 I would have bought one but I have never desired a 911, even as a child. About the only thing with a Porsche badge on I'd prefer would be a Model 980 Carrera GT and that's never likely to happen

 

[Eldavo]

As others have said I'll often refer to my car as "my other car" instead of "the Porsche" as it sometimes sounds a bit pretentious (well I think so anyway).

Funnily enough, I was on my way back from collecting the car from it's MOT and had stopped at a Tesco Express, as I got back in the car a guy in his 20's said "nice car" to which I said "thanks" - he then responded with "what is it?" - so there you go, our cars are lovely things judged on there own merits!

 

[Cater_Racer]

I've never really considered myself a poor relation...............

During the week I drive the 911:

And at the weekend I drive the 944:

Simples really.....................

 

[TTM]

As I stopped at a junction today, two ~10 year old boys riding their bikes coming the other way mentioned "Oh, an old Porsche!"... Rather impressed some of the youngest still know what this car is []

 

[GlennS]

ORIGINAL: TTM

As I stopped at a junction today, two ~10 year old boys riding their bikes coming the other way mentioned "Oh, an old Porsche!"... Rather impressed some of the youngest still know what this car is []

I am surprised. Most adults don't know what it is.

At a car show a couple of years back some chap spent fully 5 minutes chatting to me about my 944 S2. At the end he looked at me, smiled and said "ah, but you put the wrong jacket on today!". As I was wearing a Porsche jacket I was somewhat surprised. "You should have worn your Ferrari one" he continued. When I explained that the S2 was a Porsche he went slightly red and wombled off.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

When I explained that the S2 was a Porsche he went slightly red and wombled off.

As did a friend of my mother's after suggesting my Lux was a Rover....[]

 

[Ex Skyline]

Hi folks! Back again. I should of really waited for the weekend before starting this thread as, I am mental busy at work at the
moment and, haven't had much time this week so, appy-poly-logies for the delay in my responding to the most welcome
comments posted []. Your posts have been many and varied but, also most re-assuring in the fact that they all convey the same
message []. When Sarah bought me the 944 Turbo for my birthday, I didn't really know much about them other than, we both
loved the sleek, "Lean and Mean" look of them (some more than others) and, I watched one at a track day at Brands hatch
(a White Turbo), and he was totally devastating the entire field, session after session [8D]!! That got me very interested indeed
and, I started to read up on them to find out more about them and their capabilities. I watched many "You Tube" clips of them
racing (and winning)and, decided I would like to try one for myself. It took a few months of trawling all the usual performance car
web sites and, magazines before I found Him, living in Scotland. Long story short, Sarah saw me looking at the pictures of Him
over the course of a couple of weeks, took the bull by the horns and bought Him for my birthday [8D].....Job Done!!
Fast forward to recent times. This is a fantastic forum (the 944 section) and, I have made some great friends and aquaintances.
I love spending money on old cars, modifying them, making them go faster, handle better etc. I have done that since I first passed
my driving test and, will continue to do so. I wont change [8|]. Just a couple of gripes in that there are not many 944's in this
neck of the woods, not many meets (locally, in the evenings)and, far too many "pompous old git's and, chinless wonders" driving
around Sussex in brand new 997 cab's with their noses stuck up their own ar5e5 [] and, the fact that all of you on here are
based too far away for evening meets and, that is really what I like to do. I think it's fantastic that you are all so passionate about
these lovely old cars, I feel the same, just wish there was more going on down this way 944 wise is all. I have had a few
comments on a couple of my sites from the guys (obviously dinlo's that know no better) saying things like "poor man's Porsche"
and "when are you going to get a real Porsche", 5h1t like that. I must say that it starts to get on one's t1t5 after a while []!!
I have always been a Porsche fan (even when I was tuning the nuts off my Skyline [8D]), I have supported them for many years
at Le Mans (GT 2 class) and, always said that one day I would own a 993 GT2 [8D][]. The odds on that now are Zilch [] so,
I guess my Black 944 Turbo will have to suffice []! Cheers Guys.

 

[supersport]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

When I explained that the S2 was a Porsche he went slightly red and wombled off.

As did a friend of my mother's after suggesting my Lux was a Rover....[]

Better a Fwrrari than a Rover though []

God my sides hurt after reading that.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Better a Fwrrari than a Rover though

I spent a LOT of time trying to work out which Rover she mistook it for, but got nowhere. I think it was as simple as "I once saw a Rover, and it was red. Therefore, all red cars are Rovers". [&:]

 

[JagdHamster]

ORIGINAL: edh

But when you look at it, there's a massive heirarchy in 911's, with the 996 trailing along in last place (I quite fancy an early 996C2).

What's really funny is that EVO rate the 996 as the best water-cooled generation to drive.....shows how much the snobs know.

 

[TTM]

Led Zeppelin's Rover is the only nice one I can think of []