Balljoint questions.

[A5DSR]

I have problems with tramlining, and over the last few months, some knocking front the front.
I've had the jack out today and there's play in the wishbone balljoint and at the strut top at both sides! I can get hold of the damper, pull it back and forth and feel play.
This is likely to be the cause of my problems.
My questions are:
-This has only happended since I've fitted 17" rims. Could this had caused them to wear quicker or is it just 'cos the car's 16 years old and these just wear out?
-I have the ally wishbones (1989 car), will the DIY repair kits work with these?
-Is the strut top adjustable?

I need to get hold of a repair manual, and get reading.
I feel big spend coming on.[]
Cheers
Daz.

 

[Guest]

It hasn't happened just because of the 17's, it's happenned because they've got 16 years of wear. yes the balljoint kits work fine (either KLA, rennbay or their respective uk importers...).

the top bearings are a known wear area too. it's just a bit of sandwiched rubber after all. ESS do the KLA steel bearing update set at a reasonable price.

IIRC, the kits would only set you back abut £300 all told, it's just getting them fitted! the top bearings are ok (if you have spring compressors), but the bottom joint can be a PITA. you have to basically grind out all the old stuff, taking care not to damage the ally wishbone at all. not a simple job....... if you're not at all sure, probably a job left to a mechanic. Oh, and don't forget a re-alignment afterwards.....

 

[John Sims]

I wouldn't undertake the lower balljoint upgrade myself. I've heard of those done professionally breaking down so what chance does a man in a shed have?

Beaky's went u/s last year and I replaced the wishbones with 2nd hand from Porsche-apart with a view to having the originals refurbished. As far as I'm aware Porscheshop [] do exchange refurbished lower wishbones or there is a place in Scotland (Gillmores rings a bell?) that machines in a new balljoint into your own wishbone. I'd go with the Scottish option myself.

 

[A5DSR]

thanks for the replies,
I'll get the wishbones and the struts removed, see what's worn out there.
It could also do with the brake pipes & hoses replacing before MOT, so it looks like a strip down and re-build.

 

[cuffn]

I had my balljoints replaced by Craig Gilmour back in February and the service was great. Sent them by special delivery to Glasgow on the Monday and they were done and back by Wednesday all for £272 inclusive. He degreases and shotblasts the arms and then removes the old balljoints, machines the arm for the new one and installs a new balljoint complete with grease nipple. Their website is http://www.david-gilmour.com but it seems to be down at the moment so their number is 0141 646 0990. I can thoroughly recommend them.

 

[lali]

Mine went the way of the pear a couple of months ago. I asked around teh UK and ended up getting them from the states... even with paying the VAT and import scam they worked out a lot cheaper than getting them here.

Got mine from Paragon.

 

[Diver944]

My O/S wishbone failed the MOT last year. I looked around at reconditioning or just replacing the balljoint but I decided as my original one had lasted 16 hard years that it was false economy to get it rebuilt, especially when I have a lot of track use planned.

I did want to get billet 'Charlie Arms from the US but nowhere had them in stock at the time. Also, due to a wierd pricing anomoly on JZ Machtechs computer it turned out that '89 M030 wishbones were only £300 IIRC compared to £450 for all other years [&:]. Their price also included a realignment after fitting so I'm happy with the choice I made

 

[sawood12]

Aparently part of the problem is that the ball joint is glued into the wishbone making repair very difficult. Does anyone know that if you get them refurbished by David Gilmore that he re-glues the ball joints in or does he have another method that means the ball joints can be replaced easily in future??

I do like the billet arms!! At $1500 they are a bit of a rip off though - I suspect very high profit margins as CNC machining Aluminium is a very cheap method of manufacture - certainly cheaper than forging.

 

[Fen]

Remember the billet arms also have Rose joints and a replaceable ball joint to add to the CNC work. There's also the R&D time to consider as they are never going to be a high-volume product. Possibly still expensive but to be honest I'd rather pay $750 a piece for them than £400+ for originals.

 

[Guest]

the epoxy is used as a moisture barrier, and not to hold in the joint. the problem is of course, you have to get rid of the epoxy to get to the actual joint.

I sincerely hope I'm not relying on a bit of glue to hold the front wheels on the ground! (especially when someone gets the mix wrong!!!)

I'm with Fen on replacements. That joint is just a bad design. Kokeln and LR both do chromoly replacements though as an alternative to the "rocking horse poo" charlie arms.

 

[Fen]

Charley arms (or replicas) are available through Paragon and Milledge these days. I think the original ball joint is tapered and comes up from below so is pulled into the socket and can't come out so long as it's still attached to the hub. I'm paranoid mine will bind due to the car being lowered and bend the pins (or worse, break out) and I really think I have to get billet arms to put my mind at rest. I think when Powerflex get the bushes sorted out I'll sell my OE arms and get billets.

 

[Guest]

I thought the charley arms came with their own variant of poly-bushes? certainly they "reccomend" using their own billet mountings right?

 

[Fen]

To be fair I just assumed they used Rose joints. If they don't then I will have to consider if I still want to buy them. I want the front arms to be solid and only to move up and down. Who cares if it clonks and knocks and needs to be kept greased?

 

[Fen]

From the Milledge website: Anodised Aluminum Control Arms. CNC machined with high misalignment spherical bearings and stainless steel retainers. Superior design, ultimate strength with minimum weight. $1600/set That's Rose joints, right?

 

[Guest]

sounds like the longest way of saying rose joint I've ever heard! []

 

[Guest]

While We're on the subject, Has anyone used the ESS/KLA upper strut mounts at all? £100 ain't bad, and I'm not sure I can justiify 5 times that on an adjustable set (although have you seen the work of art that Dynatech do along with their strut brace!? [] )

 

[Fen]

I use the Lindsey adjustable ones (as does Rick). It made a HUGE difference at Oulton adding 1.5 degrees or so of extra negative camber at lunchtime so the adjustable ones are a fantatsic idea in my opinion. Wouldn't want to run 3 degrees negative all the time though.

 

[Guest]

Mmmm, they're actually not a bad price. And to get a pair of the paragon ones (they look the same) with my rennlist discount wouldn't be too much more than the ESS ones. Now you've got me thinking.

There's a note on the LR website that it raises the car a bit. Any idea how much? (although I have got M030, so I can take it out, I suspect those adjusters haven't been moved in 15 years!!)

I suppose the other thing is, I'd need to get a new strut brace, you just couldn't see them uner the weltmeister hat! []

 

[Fen]

I use the adjusters under a Weltmeister hat. You just need ball-ended allen keys. I didn't know it did raise the car but that makes sense. I guess it would be about an inch tops as they are flat and the OE top mounts stick up about that much. I have plenty of adjustment available on my KWs to compensate too. One thing to consider is the spring size - I had to get the 2 1/4" ones and get the alloy spring hats machined to suit my 60mm springs, I believe Rick had to have his modified somehow to suit M030. It only cost me £5 to get the ally bits turned down though.

 

[Guest]

LR are now doing stocksize spring hats which *sounds* good.

I'm not worried about getting to the bolts, just if i'm gonna fit abjustable spring pserches, then I wanna see them! []