Brakes

[zcacogp]

Would Pirtec be able to do hoses that would handle the pressure of the braking system?

What sort of pressures are we talking about?

A brake hose is not the sort of thing you would want to be taking a gamble with. Fuel line gambling is best avoided, brake line gambling is certainly not for the sane.


Oli.

 

[barks944]

are braided hoses just rubber hoses surrounded by a steel braiding?

 

[944 man]

Pretty much.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Would Pirtec be able to do hoses that would handle the pressure of the braking system?

What sort of pressures are we talking about?

A brake hose is not the sort of thing you would want to be taking a gamble with. Fuel line gambling is best avoided, brake line gambling is certainly not for the sane.

Oli.

Oli - you could make brake hoses - they aren't difficult []. If you trust yourself to re-connect a union on any brake pipe or fuel hose, then there's no reason you couldn't make a brake hose. The Goodridge kits are almost as cheap as DIY though.

Pirtek do all sorts of hydraulic hoses for large industrial applications - I think they find the car stuff an interesting diversion. It's certainly not pushing the boundaries of their competence. The connectors I bought from them to do my oil cooler were rated to something like 10,000psi [] (Ok - I picked this number off the top of my head, but I do remeber it was a very big number)

 

[JamesO]

Off the top of my head from memory:-
Front Hubs
All Discs
Washers to space out the rear calipers
Proportioning valve

I did the same upgrade to my old 2.7 when I put a 3 litre engine in it. The original ATE brakes had a nicer feel to my mind and are cheaper to run but the Brembo's look better and are lighter.

 

[944 man]

Everythings is different unfortunately. It might be easiest to buy all four corners off a car that is being broken. Make sure that it isnt a 1986 Turbo as the hubs, carrier/knuckle and calipers are all different.

 

[chrisg]

I have the front hubs from an S2 including the struts and top mounts if that helps ?

Chris

 

[loc944]

Thanks for the replies guys and the offer of parts.
Alasdair has all the parts if I want them, but just wasn't sure if my discs would be usable as they are fairly recent. Probably not worth doing until discs need replaced or upgrade to more power.

Alan.

 

[944 man]

Brembo brakes are prettier, but Im far from convinced that the original 951 brakes are much better. The ATE calipers are epic and no one ever complained that 2v 928s had poor brakes (and they weighed more and went faster!).

 

[Duffman502]

Im thinking of upgrading mine as well but ive been loking at the willwood kit and using the standard discs that might be an option unless you want all your brakes replaced.
Has anyone any experience of it?

 

[Copperman05]

The later brakes are def superior having tried both, thats why Porsche fitted them to the later models, the ATE brakes aren't bad, but they are hardly optimum when pushed. If the callipers need refurbing I can understand the want to upgrade, perhaps not an easy or simple task but I value good brakes second only to a suspension refresh.


Edd

 

[chrisg]

On the subject of brakes......

Porsche are/were and continue be superb engineers with huge amounts of design, testing & research going into all aspects of their cars.

Most notably the brakes.....

To repeat for the umpteenth time - Porsche's are NOT under braked........

If Porsche designed the Lux/ NA & S cars with sliding ATE calipers and smaller discs, they will work sufficiently even with additional weight/power.

They will need a refresh/ caliper clean and rebuild decent fluid and lines though ?

Having run an S2 (standard Brembo calipers) and a 951 (928S4 calipers) both are/were never short of braking power with good fluid and appropriate lines (ie SS braided and good serviceable hard lines).

If you have issues with Porsche 944 brakes, its not the fundamental design nor the thermal/friction properties but the 25yrs + of wear and tear on them !

 

[Duffman502]

+1 to chris
but shinier calipers look nicer [] i dont do heavy track days with consistant fast lapping but use them well and they are fine for what i need if im honest

 

[Copperman05]

I think there are other deciding factors to upgrade beyond performance alone, if its something that Porsche did (fitting larger brakes) then I don't think people can be criticised for wanting to go the same route. The brembo's do look nice, and we all like to look nice don't we?


Edd

 

[ChasR]

After today, I can say for sure that Big Blacks are the way forward (at the expense of having a Mini Cooper locking up quite badly behind me (I may have had to creep forward (which was luck induced truth be told)!).

Anyway, enough self whoring. IMO, as a cost effective upgrade I would consider changing your brake fluid if it has not been changed for a while, maybe something like ATE Super 4 as a cost effective but good brake fluid. That can make for an improvement of the brakes.

Furthermore, something like Mintex M1144s or Pagid Blues can improve upon what you have. The former certainly did on a Pug 205 of mine (superb cold bite, and they just keep stopping the car (if I am honest, they are almost a little too sharp!), and a friend's Renault Clio 172 I drove. They will almost certainly be my next choice of brake pad for the Stag (where it seems only cheap pads with poor braking ability are your only option unless you get creative ).

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: chrisg

On the subject of brakes......

Porsche are/were and continue be superb engineers with huge amounts of design, testing & research going into all aspects of their cars.

Most notably the brakes.....

To repeat for the umpteenth time - Porsche's are NOT under braked........

If Porsche designed the Lux/ NA & S cars with sliding ATE calipers and smaller discs, they will work sufficiently even with additional weight/power.

They will need a refresh/ caliper clean and rebuild decent fluid and lines though ?

Having run an S2 (standard Brembo calipers) and a 951 (928S4 calipers) both are/were never short of braking power with good fluid and appropriate lines (ie SS braided and good serviceable hard lines).

If you have issues with Porsche 944 brakes, its not the fundamental design nor the thermal/friction properties but the 25yrs + of wear and tear on them !

Completely agree with Chris

My S2 has "as new" calipers - refurbed by Olli S. They are very very good and all I will ever need in this car. I've never felt any of my Porsches to be under braked (Boxster S feels like it will be very impressive if i ever take it to the track). I have felt some pads weren't particularly good, and the choice for the sliding calipers is quite limited when it comes to track pads.

I know that Peter Empson thinks he's never had quite the same sharpness in his brakes since he swapped his ATE calipers for brembos (Don't know if he has S2 or m030).

 

[944 man]

I can confirm that the ATE brakes are superb when the cars are young and fresh. People judging them harshly must be basing their opinions on poor pads, old fluid and crusty calipers. As Ive already mentioned: consider where the calipers were used before.

 

[Copperman05]

They are very very good and all I will ever need in this car.

So if the OP wants to fit the same? Whats the issue?


Edd

 

[andy watson]

Hmmmmm interesting read,

I have completely refurbished ATE sliding callipers, discs less the 10k miles, new SS hoses, new ATE super blue fluid, have tried OEM pads, Black diamond fast road pads, brakes still rubbish! ( in my opinion)

So now looking for decent pads, what to use? options seem very limited for my 87 "S"

I am now wondering if he booster or master cylinder need attention?

Wilwoods are on my radar, or maybe the full Brembo conversion

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Copperman05

They are very very good and all I will ever need in this car.

So if the OP wants to fit the same? Whats the issue?


Edd

I don't think there is any apart from cost... is the master cylinder the same?