can a car be too cheap???????
- Thread starter colin smith
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J.C944TurboMan
New member
The rear panel lights up ! Not just a reflector . As for the bumpers , the 944 is from the US so that is why I fitted the rear panel more common in the US . I personally like the bigger rear bumper and I like the side lights , but I also like the Euro look too . I possibly should have bought the rear panel in plain red without the Turbo script . If you look at the conventional Euro look , the car does seem to be missing a panel between the rear lights , possibly what Porsche should have done is a rear panel as used on the Audi 80 Coupe would have looked good on the 944 ? I have eaten in some very posh restaurants in my time , When served for a starter cold tomato soup with very salty burnt bits of toast sprinkled on top ! Was not to my liking but respect those who choose to eat that sort of food !
sawood12
New member
Whatever floats your boat JC - like you say, not everything is to everyone's taste but at the end of the day all that matters if it is to your taste or not.
Unfortunately Chav's come in all shapes and sizes and across all demographics these days. You don't get Chavier than a footballers wife and they're not short of a bob or two. However I don't think Chavs would give a 20yr old 944 a second look. They are superb cars as we all know, but they don't have alot of street cred. Chav's probably don't go for Porsches full stop as tey are not bling enough. They'd probably plump for a Lambo or R8 (the ultimate chav-mobile IMO with its two tone bodywork and the bling twinkel ligts at the front).
Bit back on topic. Charles, your car looks like a superb example and you'd be doing yourself a dis-service to sell the car below what a good price is for one. There are alot of dogs around in 944's so all the more reason to differentiate yours from the other tat on offer. Someone may look at your car, decide it is too expensive then go looking elsewhere, but it wont be long before they are calling you up again after realising how good a car yours is.
Unfortunately this is probably the worst time to be selling any car - winter, Christmas, recession etc. If at all possible you should wait until next year and put the car up for a decent price. You owe it to yourself after all the TLC you've lavished.
Unfortunately Chav's come in all shapes and sizes and across all demographics these days. You don't get Chavier than a footballers wife and they're not short of a bob or two. However I don't think Chavs would give a 20yr old 944 a second look. They are superb cars as we all know, but they don't have alot of street cred. Chav's probably don't go for Porsches full stop as tey are not bling enough. They'd probably plump for a Lambo or R8 (the ultimate chav-mobile IMO with its two tone bodywork and the bling twinkel ligts at the front).
Bit back on topic. Charles, your car looks like a superb example and you'd be doing yourself a dis-service to sell the car below what a good price is for one. There are alot of dogs around in 944's so all the more reason to differentiate yours from the other tat on offer. Someone may look at your car, decide it is too expensive then go looking elsewhere, but it wont be long before they are calling you up again after realising how good a car yours is.
Unfortunately this is probably the worst time to be selling any car - winter, Christmas, recession etc. If at all possible you should wait until next year and put the car up for a decent price. You owe it to yourself after all the TLC you've lavished.
J.C944TurboMan
New member
Spot on Scott 
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Big Dave
New member
JC.
Personally ide loose the front + rear USA style reflectors + the rear bumper also the "tacky" little Porsche badge on the front wing...
Like Scott has said its all down to personal taste....
Has nobody bought this REALY CHEAP 944 cab yet.????
I had a few folk offering me STUPID ££££ for my 968 cabrio.. Obviously i didnt entertain them...[][8|].
I thoroughly enjoyed my cabrio, + yes they are a real chill out car. Especialy the drives round the Lakes in the middle of summer , roofless.....
BUT £3.5K for a 944cab is a GOOD price...So long as it is as described...
PS.
Personally ,to get it up to scratch, may cost,,,
Hood ,,, £1000.
cam chain, poss cams,,, £1500.
clutch, £450 ish...
So ide say theres about £3k to spend on it...
Thats if you want to keep it for a few years, otherwise. Buy it , use it + sell it on in 12months or so, for what you bought it for.....
This is NOT to put people off, just being realistic...Its still a cheap car....
Personally ide loose the front + rear USA style reflectors + the rear bumper also the "tacky" little Porsche badge on the front wing...
Like Scott has said its all down to personal taste....
Has nobody bought this REALY CHEAP 944 cab yet.????
I had a few folk offering me STUPID ££££ for my 968 cabrio.. Obviously i didnt entertain them...[
][8|].I thoroughly enjoyed my cabrio, + yes they are a real chill out car. Especialy the drives round the Lakes in the middle of summer , roofless.....
BUT £3.5K for a 944cab is a GOOD price...So long as it is as described...
PS.
Personally ,to get it up to scratch, may cost,,,
Hood ,,, £1000.
cam chain, poss cams,,, £1500.
clutch, £450 ish...
So ide say theres about £3k to spend on it...
Thats if you want to keep it for a few years, otherwise. Buy it , use it + sell it on in 12months or so, for what you bought it for.....
This is NOT to put people off, just being realistic...Its still a cheap car....
J.C944TurboMan
New member
Alright Dave I've taken onboard your comments , But Why would I want to make a rare US import 944 Turbo look more common Euro Look ! I have spent all day doing all the work to make my 944 look better now ! The only thing I have changed are the wheels BBS , the front spoiler and fitted the US style rear panel , can be purchased from 944Online , And recently the 924 Turbo bonnet , still got original bonnet with car. The sticker on the side was fitted by previous owner and when the car was painted they lacquered over the sticker , so for now sticker must stay , but looking to replace wings next year so will deal with the stickers then. You have mentioned the roof on Colins 944 Cab , but as far as I am awear there is nothing wrong with the roof ? If the belts have been done recently then as a second car you could buy it and run it for a few years without any major money been spent , the rubber seals inside the cluth slave cylinder wear due to age ,then when hot you get clutch fade , does not mean you need a new clutch , people who are intrested can just get the AA to inspect the car before they buy ! At that sort of money were is the risk. Just bought some 968 original equipment Cup mirrors , will it be ok to fit them ready for next season Dave ?
Neil Haughey
New member
I think the problem with all of the 944/968 cabs is that they compete head on with Boxsters, whereas coupes with their daily driver usability are a different beast. I don't agree about a Boxster being better, in 2.5 litre form its not much quicker then a shopping trolley but it does have a nicer sound and better handling the a 944 in stock trim. Thing is though I don't think the boxster is a very friendly car for the DIY mechanic whereas the 944/968 series is. This is the key to long term values IMHO. Cheap classic cars need fettlers like us to buy and maintain them, nobody except the insane is going to buy a £4K car and then spend £2K a year getting all the maintanence done by Pro's.
If anything the boxster has a more troubling forcast IMHO. It would be interesting to hear Jon M's opinion on this because I see parallels with the Saab 9-5 I am ditching, the car gets to a certain point where all the cost cutting comes home to roost and you spend a fortune keeping the thing on the road. The thing is I don't see home mechanics doing all this work on boxsters hence many I fear in years to come will become uneconomical.
The thing that really gets my goat is how many just will not look at a Porsche thinking its to expensive to keep. Fact is I got a 968 because I know it will cost less to own over the next 3 or 4 years then something like a several year old Saab, which is shocking to most ppl but true none the less.
Last point which everyone overlooks is RFL. The way things are supposed to go all sports car built after 2001 are going to cost a lot more in RFL in the future, even our MX-5 will cost over £500 p.a. whereas our old cars are stuck at £185 the same as a shed-u-like family saloon.
If anything the boxster has a more troubling forcast IMHO. It would be interesting to hear Jon M's opinion on this because I see parallels with the Saab 9-5 I am ditching, the car gets to a certain point where all the cost cutting comes home to roost and you spend a fortune keeping the thing on the road. The thing is I don't see home mechanics doing all this work on boxsters hence many I fear in years to come will become uneconomical.
The thing that really gets my goat is how many just will not look at a Porsche thinking its to expensive to keep. Fact is I got a 968 because I know it will cost less to own over the next 3 or 4 years then something like a several year old Saab, which is shocking to most ppl but true none the less.
Last point which everyone overlooks is RFL. The way things are supposed to go all sports car built after 2001 are going to cost a lot more in RFL in the future, even our MX-5 will cost over £500 p.a. whereas our old cars are stuck at £185 the same as a shed-u-like family saloon.
Having owned a Boxster 2.5 and a 944 S2 I would note a couple of big differences, which to me says they compete on different playing fields.
Boxster 2.5
Annual cost of repairs and servicing £2000 on average
Most expensive worst case scenario problem, engine failure
Cost of worst case scenario £7000 for the engine, £1500 in installation and setup
Likelyhood - Very likely
944 S2 cabrio
Annual cost of repairs and servicing £500 on average
Most expensive worst case scenario problem, engine failure
Cost of worst case scenario £1500 for an engine, £800 to install it
Likelyhood - Very UN likely
Differences in driving.
Boxster 2.5 in reality seemed slower than the S2
Technically the 2.5 Boxster should be faster through the corners, but did not give me much confidence
944 S2 at 150 mph seemed rock steady, the Boxster feels like your riding a screaming dive bomber at that speed about to destruct.
Through country lanes the S2 seemed at home and stable, even when the roads chuck you a curve ball, the Boxster sticks in there, but makes more of a dogs dinner about it.
Build quality. I know my S2 is still around and fighting fit after almost 20 years, My old 2.5 Boxster is probably out there and 10 years old now.. the S2 if looked after should still be around in another 10 or maybe even 20 years, i REALLY doubt the Boxster will be.
Its worth remembering that when it was new, you could buy a small 1 bed flat for the price of a 944 S2 cabrio, when the Boxster was new it would probably buy a conservatory. and its reflected in the build quality.
If I had to choose a car to have an accident in, it would be the S2
So why did I buy a Boxster S after the 2.5 Boxster? I will be honest, it had enough power to be as quick, if not a little quicker than the S2, I hoped it would handle better (It did) which made it on par with the S2, and here comes the honest bit, I wanted something with some more status than going back to an S2.. Having said that, in some ways the S2 looks more classy than the Boxster.
Now I have a Boxster 3.2 S (for day to day work) and a GT3 (seems to be mostly for waxing and coo'ing at) and a 944 turbo which I will use for track days next year as well as treating myself to a Nurburgring trip once or twice. If I was a bit wiser, I would probably buy a 944 S2 cabrio and have all 3 cars in one, but that would involve selling the Boxster and GT3 at a time which is financial suicide. Their values, like the S2 cabrio will go back up. Count on it.
Any doubters, just look back at the classic car value crash in the early 90's during the last recession.. high prices before, then a crash, then the prices recovered over the course of about 3 years. The prices never quite recovered to the late 80's values, but that was down to the mad classic car investers of the late 80's getting burned and a more realistic outlook after that, but even still, the prices recovered.
Boxster 2.5
Annual cost of repairs and servicing £2000 on average
Most expensive worst case scenario problem, engine failure
Cost of worst case scenario £7000 for the engine, £1500 in installation and setup
Likelyhood - Very likely
944 S2 cabrio
Annual cost of repairs and servicing £500 on average
Most expensive worst case scenario problem, engine failure
Cost of worst case scenario £1500 for an engine, £800 to install it
Likelyhood - Very UN likely
Differences in driving.
Boxster 2.5 in reality seemed slower than the S2
Technically the 2.5 Boxster should be faster through the corners, but did not give me much confidence
944 S2 at 150 mph seemed rock steady, the Boxster feels like your riding a screaming dive bomber at that speed about to destruct.
Through country lanes the S2 seemed at home and stable, even when the roads chuck you a curve ball, the Boxster sticks in there, but makes more of a dogs dinner about it.
Build quality. I know my S2 is still around and fighting fit after almost 20 years, My old 2.5 Boxster is probably out there and 10 years old now.. the S2 if looked after should still be around in another 10 or maybe even 20 years, i REALLY doubt the Boxster will be.
Its worth remembering that when it was new, you could buy a small 1 bed flat for the price of a 944 S2 cabrio, when the Boxster was new it would probably buy a conservatory. and its reflected in the build quality.
If I had to choose a car to have an accident in, it would be the S2
So why did I buy a Boxster S after the 2.5 Boxster? I will be honest, it had enough power to be as quick, if not a little quicker than the S2, I hoped it would handle better (It did) which made it on par with the S2, and here comes the honest bit, I wanted something with some more status than going back to an S2.. Having said that, in some ways the S2 looks more classy than the Boxster.
Now I have a Boxster 3.2 S (for day to day work) and a GT3 (seems to be mostly for waxing and coo'ing at) and a 944 turbo which I will use for track days next year as well as treating myself to a Nurburgring trip once or twice. If I was a bit wiser, I would probably buy a 944 S2 cabrio and have all 3 cars in one, but that would involve selling the Boxster and GT3 at a time which is financial suicide. Their values, like the S2 cabrio will go back up. Count on it.
Any doubters, just look back at the classic car value crash in the early 90's during the last recession.. high prices before, then a crash, then the prices recovered over the course of about 3 years. The prices never quite recovered to the late 80's values, but that was down to the mad classic car investers of the late 80's getting burned and a more realistic outlook after that, but even still, the prices recovered.
J.C944TurboMan
New member
Some fine descriptions of the differences between the Boxster and S2
You missed one key point ! I think the Boxster looks like a girly car , like the MX5 , as the 944 S2 and Turbo with it's pumped out arches looks more masculine and with the unique rear end gear box makes the car very forgiving if you loose the back end . I have never driven a Boxster so you know best on driving experiences but when it comes to looks I do prefer the S2 models and the Turbo 944's . If you take the 95 year model M3 and the E30 M3 1989 year , you will find that the E30 are very sort after cars and changing hands for silly amounts of money . So like you say , I also believe that if you keep hold of your 944 S2 and 944 Turbo models , they should go up in price with age , like a fine wine ! I am so jealous of your line up of fine Porsches you own and I would say that the Boxster 3.2 S is the most masculine model and should be the one to collect in the future. If you have the 944 Turbo for track days then what do you use the GT3 for ? I thought that the GT3 is a ready built track day car , which one do you own the Red and White ?Get some pic's on of such a fine line up of Porsche you have .
I'm afraid to say as usual one poster purveying nonsense.
A 120,000 mile S2 that has not had the chain and cams looked at is, unfortunately, a bill waiting to happen. You might get 20k miles out of it, but it would be running it into the ground IMO as the eventual outcome will be a big repair bill or an engine failure. Arguably it might need the repair bill now, and as I personally wouldn't just replace the chain then it would for me, but the longer it's left the more it will need spending on it.
Now that isn't to belittle the OP's car. I'm with Dave on being realistic, however. Put it another way; I wouldn't buy an S2 that hadn't had attention to the cams unless it was cheap enough. As an example there is a black S2 cab for sale in Auckland just now. The guy wants $9,000 for it, which is just under 3,400 Sterling.
As it's the best colour (IMO) and it looked pretty good from the pics and limited description I mailed him to ask about things like cams and seat condition. He hasn't replied, which I take as bad news, which in turn means that even here where the car looked cheap, is very rare (unfortunately there are no Turbo cabs around for sale, possibly none in the country) and is the best colour I won't be pursuing it any further.
What does that mean for the original question? Yes, a car can be too cheap as it gets people wondering why it is so cheap, or thinking the seller is in a bad financial situation and is desperate so they will try to get it cheaper still. Unfortunately if the cam cover hasn't been lifted then there is a reason for it to be cheap IMO.
Lastly "rare American import". ROTFLMAO as someone else might say []. Rare means demand outstrips supply; not many about means nobody wants one.
A 120,000 mile S2 that has not had the chain and cams looked at is, unfortunately, a bill waiting to happen. You might get 20k miles out of it, but it would be running it into the ground IMO as the eventual outcome will be a big repair bill or an engine failure. Arguably it might need the repair bill now, and as I personally wouldn't just replace the chain then it would for me, but the longer it's left the more it will need spending on it.
Now that isn't to belittle the OP's car. I'm with Dave on being realistic, however. Put it another way; I wouldn't buy an S2 that hadn't had attention to the cams unless it was cheap enough. As an example there is a black S2 cab for sale in Auckland just now. The guy wants $9,000 for it, which is just under 3,400 Sterling.
As it's the best colour (IMO) and it looked pretty good from the pics and limited description I mailed him to ask about things like cams and seat condition. He hasn't replied, which I take as bad news, which in turn means that even here where the car looked cheap, is very rare (unfortunately there are no Turbo cabs around for sale, possibly none in the country) and is the best colour I won't be pursuing it any further.
What does that mean for the original question? Yes, a car can be too cheap as it gets people wondering why it is so cheap, or thinking the seller is in a bad financial situation and is desperate so they will try to get it cheaper still. Unfortunately if the cam cover hasn't been lifted then there is a reason for it to be cheap IMO.
Lastly "rare American import". ROTFLMAO as someone else might say [
]. Rare means demand outstrips supply; not many about means nobody wants one.
J.C944TurboMan
New member
Alright fen , good to hear from you again , I know your a fan ! What can I say ! Your getting personal again ! That's fine as I have owned Porsche for some years now and now understand why a lot of people say don't bother with the forums as a lot of Porsche owners are total D**KS and you must defenetly full into this branding . A chain repair kit from Porschshop uk is £27.00 and a chain tensioner from Porsche is about £200 the main costing in such work is the labour , as soon as they see you in a Porsche the price triples , this is why the only affordable why to run these older S2 is DIY . I do not understand your statement about my car been rare ! I am reffering to it been rare in the UK not world wide ! But again I am not going to loose sleep over it , you are as important in my life as a slug . This will be my final posting as I can not be bothered any more and share nothing in common with people such as your self Fen , and Pauly you can kiss my A*SE too !
Big Dave
New member
What i was saying about the potential "impending" spend on this car is, If its still on its original hood, cams / chain, + clutch plate + cover. Then they WILL ALL need attending to sooner rather than later...
After all the car has covered almost 100,000 miles, and we ALL know that the cams + clutch need doing around that milage...Oh + not forgeting the water pump..????????
The roof is down to an age related thing, also , if the car has been outside for any prolonged period, the stitching becomes brittle + the rear window goes milky + cracks...And the roof covering starts to look very tired...
Im only being realistic....
So i suspect a figure of around £3K for eventualities [repairs],is VERY realistic.....
JC. The 968 mirrors look nice, Go for it....[][][]
BUT the USA look , Nah its not for me...
If you like it, then great, who am i to dissuade you from you beloved car....[][]
After all the car has covered almost 100,000 miles, and we ALL know that the cams + clutch need doing around that milage...Oh + not forgeting the water pump..????????
The roof is down to an age related thing, also , if the car has been outside for any prolonged period, the stitching becomes brittle + the rear window goes milky + cracks...And the roof covering starts to look very tired...
Im only being realistic....
So i suspect a figure of around £3K for eventualities [repairs],is VERY realistic.....
JC. The 968 mirrors look nice, Go for it....[
][][]BUT the USA look , Nah its not for me...
If you like it, then great, who am i to dissuade you from you beloved car....[
][]Neil Haughey
New member
Fen whilst it is very sound advise to look at the cam sprockets on all 16v motors my own car has 172K miles on the original cams! It isn't as bad as it seems, an engine that has managed over 170K miles without ever being taken apart is pretty amazing and one has to accept that realistically some big bills may be in store. Worth noting that at this age the cars will likely need the head of at some pint anyways to replace the head gasket. The 968 I just bought had a complete top end rebuild with a bill for £3.5K at 100K miles and another £2.5K bill but even so looking back at the last 6 or 7 years of bills on that car it is still less then £2K PA more like £1.5K PA and that was all using a well known specialist that ain't exactly cheap.
Unless one is very unlucky and gets an engine failure the evidence from the likes of Baz Hartech is that right now boxsters / 996 are cheaper to maintain then S2/turbo/968.
It is correct though IMHO that is jobs like the cams that will cost a lot of money even for the DIY maintainer. I suspect that if you strip the head off yourself and get guides, valves and seats relaped, face cleaned/skimmed maybe by a local engine workshop (not Porsche specialist), new cams, new chain etc. the bill is still going to be over £1500 unless you can get a mega deal on the cams.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Neil. If your S2 got to 170k without a problem and without the cam cover being lifted then I'd say you were lucky. If on the other hand you're saying your 968 needed serious money spending at 100k in that area I'd say that's to be expected as the 968 variable cam timing puts extra strain on the cams and chain.
Either way I stand by my original statement that it's misinformation to state that a 120k S2 that has not had the cams / chain / tensioner checked is likely to give another 20,000 miles of trouble-free motoring. Evidence of a wide cross-section of S2 owners suggests the chain and tensioner at least are due for replacement long before 140k and the cams themselves can fail through age, which can only be accelerated by mileage.
Either way I stand by my original statement that it's misinformation to state that a 120k S2 that has not had the cams / chain / tensioner checked is likely to give another 20,000 miles of trouble-free motoring. Evidence of a wide cross-section of S2 owners suggests the chain and tensioner at least are due for replacement long before 140k and the cams themselves can fail through age, which can only be accelerated by mileage.
It got personal because I've called JC on posting misinformation before so if I do it again he thinks it's a personal dig at him. I admit I stirred it slightly with the bit about the American import, but come on; everybody knows a US import in the UK is the least desirable Porsche possible.
colin smith
PCGB Member
I'm curious then in what you feel any S2 is worth or any car for that matter when the prices are getting so low? I've already spent best part of £2k on it since I've had it and yes I'm sure that in the next couple of years I could spend another £3k on it. So are you saying in effect any cab thats hasn't had a topend rebuild and a new roof etc, is in effect worthless?
morris944s2john
New member
"Neil Haughey
titleAndStar(765,0,0,false,"PCGB Member","")
PCGB Member" wrote:-
"Thing is though I don't think the boxster is a very friendly car for the DIY mechanic whereas the 944/968 series is. This is the key to long term values IMHO. Cheap classic cars need fettlers like us to buy and maintain them, nobody except the insane is going to buy a £4K car and then spend £2K a year getting all the maintanence done by Pro's.
"
This is a very good point- we need to get the 944/924 established as a classic car as it is DIY friendly and durable enough to ensure its survival. Even a basic 924 would wipe the floor with a simmilarly priced British classic "coupe" and a 944 even a "lowly" Lux would leave the likes of a TR7 or MGB GT for dead.
titleAndStar(765,0,0,false,"PCGB Member","")
PCGB Member" wrote:-
"Thing is though I don't think the boxster is a very friendly car for the DIY mechanic whereas the 944/968 series is. This is the key to long term values IMHO. Cheap classic cars need fettlers like us to buy and maintain them, nobody except the insane is going to buy a £4K car and then spend £2K a year getting all the maintanence done by Pro's.
"
This is a very good point- we need to get the 944/924 established as a classic car as it is DIY friendly and durable enough to ensure its survival. Even a basic 924 would wipe the floor with a simmilarly priced British classic "coupe" and a 944 even a "lowly" Lux would leave the likes of a TR7 or MGB GT for dead.
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