Cayman GT4 RS
- Thread starter gpm993
- Start date
So all the design is done for the Cayman, the factory is up and running making Caymans. I reckon you could get a nice new example for say £80k. Stick a bigger engine in, ceramic brakes and modified suspension and the price jumps from £80k to £265k.
Doesnt seem logic to me or am I missing something??
Doesnt seem logic to me or am I missing something??
You seem to be unaware of the "flipping" culture within the Porsche world. It's been around a while, and some OPCs are in on it to get a second bite of the cherry by selling the same car twice for profit each time. The buyer of a car at an inflated price may not be being ripped off that badly as the market will decide the price. Several cars never drop to their list price ever again - see the 991 911R plus the 991 GT2RS and GT3RS as examples.
On the subject of the GT4RS, I was reading earlier today about a buyer who had a GT4RS from new and it's currently up for sale with minimal mileage. They are selling it via the original supplying OPC who will take a cut of the flipped profit. The owner is doing this deal with the OPC to get a couple of other limited run Porsches, I suspect a GT3RS and possibly the upcoming 911ST.
It's frustrating for people who want the more limited run cars to own and run, but at the end of the day OPCs are a business and for some they're focussed on the maximum profit they can achieve which these flipping games contribute to.
On the subject of the GT4RS, I was reading earlier today about a buyer who had a GT4RS from new and it's currently up for sale with minimal mileage. They are selling it via the original supplying OPC who will take a cut of the flipped profit. The owner is doing this deal with the OPC to get a couple of other limited run Porsches, I suspect a GT3RS and possibly the upcoming 911ST.
It's frustrating for people who want the more limited run cars to own and run, but at the end of the day OPCs are a business and for some they're focussed on the maximum profit they can achieve which these flipping games contribute to.
And today I read about two more GT4RS buyers who are also getting a GT3RS. No info on what's happening to their GT4RSs, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that they're going back to the supplying dealer. I thought we were moving away from those dark days, but clearly not.
I really feel for those people who want a new GT4RS as a forever car but aren't going to get one. They're going to be allocated that way in very few cases it seems!
I really feel for those people who want a new GT4RS as a forever car but aren't going to get one. They're going to be allocated that way in very few cases it seems!
Porsche is running a business too. It is to be hoped that they don’t decide to do the same thing in light of what is going on. They could start charging £250k list for the car and the next time it gets ‘flipped’ its £400k.
Strange times and slightly dodgy business practices but I suppose if there is money to be made then people will do it.
On a similar note I went to Leeds Audi a few years ago and asked about a TT roadster for my wife . The tarted up young lady salesperson virtually laughed and said very scathingly ‘you won’t get one of those. I can put you on the waiting list if you want but don’t hold your breath’
Dont bother dear I said, I’ll go get a different car. Ended up with a Merc CLK cab- beautiful thing.
Strange times and slightly dodgy business practices but I suppose if there is money to be made then people will do it.
On a similar note I went to Leeds Audi a few years ago and asked about a TT roadster for my wife . The tarted up young lady salesperson virtually laughed and said very scathingly ‘you won’t get one of those. I can put you on the waiting list if you want but don’t hold your breath’
Dont bother dear I said, I’ll go get a different car. Ended up with a Merc CLK cab- beautiful thing.
I have a very early 981GT4 which I've owned since September 2015.
During the period whilst I was advised by the local OPC who have over the years supplied me with six new cars ... a CR and the GT4 more recently ... that they could not supply me with a new 718GT4 / GT4RS / 991.2GT3 etc, I have followed a series of modifications many of which have become RPM / Porsche Manthey enhancements.
The total cost of this including Surface Transform Carbon discs (now successfully past their first refurbishment skim after 50 trackdays) and a set of wonderful BBS Manthey F1R wheels, has been in excess of £50k and the car is now more or less the equivalent of a road going 718GT4 Clubsport.
For myself it is wonderful with the enhancements possibly of greater value in everyday road driving than on the race track, but even though massively over-serviced, when recently I thought of selling it, prospective purchasers found it complicated to insure and despite having all the original parts which included a good set of PCCB's, did not wish to pay much more than the equivalent cost of a good standard car.
If Porsche had made and marketed this car as an original model, it would have the same value as a GT4RS (plusses and minuses of spec) ... but is there a lesson in this ?
I'm really happy to keep the car for me ... but within the context of others following this route, the financial implications of my experience may be useful.
The big question unless I have just been unlucky, is whether the financial implications of Manthey upgrades ... even if bought and fitted by their Porsche OPC ... would make any financial sense ?
Either way, I decided to spend my racing budget when I stopped this on my GT4 and I have had a tremendous amount of fun ... so far! Going forwards the cost of consumables for my trackdays is now reduced by around 30% ... less wear on brake pads / discs / tyres ... and no centre locks to worry about when fitting new tyres / fitting winter tyres etc.
During the period whilst I was advised by the local OPC who have over the years supplied me with six new cars ... a CR and the GT4 more recently ... that they could not supply me with a new 718GT4 / GT4RS / 991.2GT3 etc, I have followed a series of modifications many of which have become RPM / Porsche Manthey enhancements.
The total cost of this including Surface Transform Carbon discs (now successfully past their first refurbishment skim after 50 trackdays) and a set of wonderful BBS Manthey F1R wheels, has been in excess of £50k and the car is now more or less the equivalent of a road going 718GT4 Clubsport.
For myself it is wonderful with the enhancements possibly of greater value in everyday road driving than on the race track, but even though massively over-serviced, when recently I thought of selling it, prospective purchasers found it complicated to insure and despite having all the original parts which included a good set of PCCB's, did not wish to pay much more than the equivalent cost of a good standard car.
If Porsche had made and marketed this car as an original model, it would have the same value as a GT4RS (plusses and minuses of spec) ... but is there a lesson in this ?
I'm really happy to keep the car for me ... but within the context of others following this route, the financial implications of my experience may be useful.
The big question unless I have just been unlucky, is whether the financial implications of Manthey upgrades ... even if bought and fitted by their Porsche OPC ... would make any financial sense ?
Either way, I decided to spend my racing budget when I stopped this on my GT4 and I have had a tremendous amount of fun ... so far! Going forwards the cost of consumables for my trackdays is now reduced by around 30% ... less wear on brake pads / discs / tyres ... and no centre locks to worry about when fitting new tyres / fitting winter tyres etc.
This weekend OPC just added 4 as new 4rs to the web sites.
also some OPC have them for sale in showrooms and not on sites.
it’s still a shame most of these are flipped out the box.
for me the value at overs seems daft at £235k when you can buy the better 992 gt3 for £195k now ! I really don’t get the 4RS and would Not even want one at list to be honest.
911 is king for £200k the hard part then is choosing a 991.2 RS or 992 GT3.
I am happy I sold my GT3 after 4 years, they are not great road cars and are too fast for the roads. The gt4 also is a bit hard for road use as a daily or even fun I find.
I ended up selling my toys and getting a 718 Spyder, softer on the road than a gt4, as good on track 99% of the time. Sounds better roof off (less drone) and I put £50k back in my pocket.
do most people buy GT cars to own them for free when 90% people should be in a GTS. thing is with GT cars is they are free to own and use, I kept my gt3 for 4 years and still sold it in the trade for £5k more than I paid for it cash in hand. my bmw dtm which was much rarer I loss £10k on it in 12 months !
718 Spyder seems a sweet spot, better than any other GT car for road use but all the GT parts and electrics As as fast on track for 99.9% people. Yes I miss the gt3 engine and noise a bit, but every time out in the gt3 was a 140mph affair, it was madness.
gt4 for me now even being anti PDK is really a PDK car ! Better on track, shorter gearing etc etc.
I might even pick up a PDK gt4 for a bit and put PS4S on it. But I would never buy a manual gt4 now, just seems the wrong box for said car. and like wise PDK in a Spyder just feels wrong to me.
all my own opinions of course. But owning most of them and driving them for fun on road buy a 20k 2.9 987.2 Boxter lol you cannot get more fun at any more money really and it’s fast enough.
so why are we in £100k to £250k cars any way.
if I did not still have. My 987.2 manual Spyder , I would be buying a 2.9 Boxster for weekends.
also some OPC have them for sale in showrooms and not on sites.
it’s still a shame most of these are flipped out the box.
for me the value at overs seems daft at £235k when you can buy the better 992 gt3 for £195k now ! I really don’t get the 4RS and would Not even want one at list to be honest.
911 is king for £200k the hard part then is choosing a 991.2 RS or 992 GT3.
I am happy I sold my GT3 after 4 years, they are not great road cars and are too fast for the roads. The gt4 also is a bit hard for road use as a daily or even fun I find.
I ended up selling my toys and getting a 718 Spyder, softer on the road than a gt4, as good on track 99% of the time. Sounds better roof off (less drone) and I put £50k back in my pocket.
do most people buy GT cars to own them for free when 90% people should be in a GTS. thing is with GT cars is they are free to own and use, I kept my gt3 for 4 years and still sold it in the trade for £5k more than I paid for it cash in hand. my bmw dtm which was much rarer I loss £10k on it in 12 months !
718 Spyder seems a sweet spot, better than any other GT car for road use but all the GT parts and electrics As as fast on track for 99.9% people. Yes I miss the gt3 engine and noise a bit, but every time out in the gt3 was a 140mph affair, it was madness.
gt4 for me now even being anti PDK is really a PDK car ! Better on track, shorter gearing etc etc.
I might even pick up a PDK gt4 for a bit and put PS4S on it. But I would never buy a manual gt4 now, just seems the wrong box for said car. and like wise PDK in a Spyder just feels wrong to me.
all my own opinions of course. But owning most of them and driving them for fun on road buy a 20k 2.9 987.2 Boxter lol you cannot get more fun at any more money really and it’s fast enough.
so why are we in £100k to £250k cars any way.
if I did not still have. My 987.2 manual Spyder , I would be buying a 2.9 Boxster for weekends.
MrDemon said:
I'm interested that you say the 718 Spyder is softer on the road than a GT4 - I was under the impression that the suspension of both cars was the same. Is it springs, dampers or both that are different?
MrDemon said:
Spot on. But I can hardly disagree with you there, can I?
Wow, MrD this is fascinating reading….. whilst playing dream car garage I have convinced myself that whilst the GT4RS is just awesome, it’s not designed for the road but I still look lovingly at a GT4 as my ultimate car. But I love my 987 Cayman S, and already think it’s fast enough for 99% of my use, so reading this just compounds this view (and my major lack of funds to afford a GT car !!) Would 4x the money deliver me 4x the happiness? I can’t see it…..
While the spring rates are the same, the 718 Spyder must have softer damping settings in the PASM Software.
I really dislike PASM, but I guess Porsche have Manthey to fit proper dampers for£8k If you want more.
the gt4 really is a bit odd, under sprung up front but over damped :-( how did they get it so wrong ?
I really dislike PASM, but I guess Porsche have Manthey to fit proper dampers for£8k If you want more.
the gt4 really is a bit odd, under sprung up front but over damped :-( how did they get it so wrong ?
spyderwhite
Member
”But owning most of them and driving them for fun on road buy a 20k 2.9 987.2 Boxter lol you cannot get more fun at any more money really and it’s fast enough. so why are we in £100k to £250k cars any way”
This has been my thought for a long time ever since I drove a 2.9 boxster at the PEC in 2011, but we still chase the latest and greatest!
Personally I would not take a Gt4Rs at list but I would the Spyder RS if it ever arrives!
This has been my thought for a long time ever since I drove a 2.9 boxster at the PEC in 2011, but we still chase the latest and greatest!
Personally I would not take a Gt4Rs at list but I would the Spyder RS if it ever arrives!
AndrewCS said:
I found unless on track the 981 gt4 was a bit dull to drive on the road.
sounded nice, but the engine was poor, the gearing long, so enjoyment was hard to come by.
I bought another Cayman R for fun a few months after my 981 gt4 slower but way more fun. I did not drive the GT4 much then bar a few track days, the R was always the goto car.
Again only my opinion of course. But I still own my 987.2 Spyder due to how great it is to drive At slower speeds than any of the GT cars I have owned.
AndrewCS
Active member
MrDemon said:
Having had a manual R as my first Porsche, you and I are totally opposite in our opinions David - all good [
]I did 8k in the R`s year with me and am now at 13k in three years with the GT4, both on factory geometry settings (max cambers). I have had both on track [
] []I can`t analyse the suspension as yourself, my OG M2 DCT is analysed much the same by others - again, as with the GT4 it works well for me on our less than perfect roads up here
AndrewCS said:Manthey alignment @ £635 plus ~ 9k PDK shifting
Interesting part for me was how far out of true (consistency across axles) the factory setup was, just as with every Porsche I've had.
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
