Cayman GT4: Where are we up 2 now? Déjà vu Edition
- Thread starter ralphmusic
- Start date
Brian_Innes
Member
With the forthcoming new Cayman GT4 due at the end of this year, I spent a few minutes on the configurator choosing a spec suiting my preferences for the current 718 Cayman GTS.
The end result was over £73,000.
I consider my current 718 CS to be pushing the envelope at £64,000, but another £9000 on top for a smart body kit and a measly 15bhp is not attracting my interest at the moment.
I'm very interested to see what the new GT4 holds in store. I have absolutely no hang-ups about the engine choice. Whether it be a 6 n/a or a 4 turbo is of little consequence to me. It's the road and track dynamic performance and the method of power delivery that matters most, not the sound emitting from the exhaust. My views on the flat-4 are already well known on this forum.
Far more interesting will be the pricing and standard spec of this new GT4. If the current 718 GTS with sporty bits is costing £70k plus, then a GT4 at a basic £70k with all the anticipated dynamic chassis developments is an exciting prospect.............
Brian
The end result was over £73,000.
I consider my current 718 CS to be pushing the envelope at £64,000, but another £9000 on top for a smart body kit and a measly 15bhp is not attracting my interest at the moment.
I'm very interested to see what the new GT4 holds in store. I have absolutely no hang-ups about the engine choice. Whether it be a 6 n/a or a 4 turbo is of little consequence to me. It's the road and track dynamic performance and the method of power delivery that matters most, not the sound emitting from the exhaust. My views on the flat-4 are already well known on this forum.
Far more interesting will be the pricing and standard spec of this new GT4. If the current 718 GTS with sporty bits is costing £70k plus, then a GT4 at a basic £70k with all the anticipated dynamic chassis developments is an exciting prospect.............
Brian
BJ Innes said:
Given the 718S' significantly lower Nordschliefe time versus the 981S and the frankly astonishing GT3/RS improvements v 991.1 versions, Porsche will need to make a real improvement to the Gen 2 GT4 to avoid seriously disappointing the punters (IMHO) and mainly in the chassis.
If I was planning the Gen 2 GT4 with an eye to GT4 racing, I'd fit the 3.0L Turbo 992 engine into "the" new generation platform. This chimes with Rennlister Shockwave's post re meeting in Germany and the need to have a competitive race car. It might also allow the adoption of a non-strut rear suspension.... But then I am not in charge of Porsche GT cars..
Ralph,
Although a twin turbo flat-6 could make sense from a racing perspective, I think that a non-strut rear axle would be a step too far for Porsche - in effect it would be a mid-engined 911 - and probably far too expensive to implement. There's plenty of scope for tuning the flat-4 turbo, including perhaps a mild capacity increase, and also for introducing more adjustability in the rear suspension's strut set-up.
Jeff
Although a twin turbo flat-6 could make sense from a racing perspective, I think that a non-strut rear axle would be a step too far for Porsche - in effect it would be a mid-engined 911 - and probably far too expensive to implement. There's plenty of scope for tuning the flat-4 turbo, including perhaps a mild capacity increase, and also for introducing more adjustability in the rear suspension's strut set-up.
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
In my opinion both Ralph and Jeff have made valid points. A twin turbo flat-6 for the GT4 would be great choice and please many, as well as future-proofing the car for years to come by way of easy ECU tuning. Racing R&D teams would be absolutely delighted, as they would also be with multi-link rear suspension.Motorhead said:
Porsche already have a mid-engined 911 with the RSR in the world series sports car championship. It begs the question as to where Porsche want to go with their two sports coupes. The 911 is iconic and a huge profit earner for Porsche, but it is getting near the end of it's development, at least with internal combustion engines as the power unit.
By contrast, the mid-engine platform has lots of development still to come. In many ways, the 911 is blocking the full potential of the Cayman mid-engine platform. Not least due to it's perceived placement, by both aspirational and existing Porsche customers, as being at the top of the sports car pyramid. The Cayman is still regarded by some, sniffily, as the "poor man's Porsche".
As for the flat-4 turbo future, this will be determined by whichever engine Porsche decides to use for the new GT4. If it's to be a flat-6, then that will seal the fate of future development of the flat-4 turbo. This would be a missed opportunity in my opinion, as the flat-4 turbo engine in my experience has huge potential ahead of it right up to the point when electric power takes over. That is not far off.
I, for one, would be very sad to see Porsche effectively bin further development of the flat-4 turbo in favour of bowing to the prejudices of the flat-6 n/a traditionalists.
Brian
Motorhead said:
That will be the Clubsport MF version (Millenium Falcon)
roblaurie said:
No ones driven the new one yet , I am sure it's dynamically good enough for 99% of people, they have made a lot of changes and for £50k it looks mega imo and of course not a 4 pot
the 981/718 platform is very lacking in the rear sus and zero adjustment out the box. remember only the 911's have multilink rear set up.
Revised chassis tuning and an upgraded brake system means it handles sharper than the original
BMW’s M engineers have also adjusted the dynamics to take the increased performance into account, including a carbon-fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) high-precision strut from the BMW M3/M4 in the engine compartment. This improves front section rigidity and increases steering precision.
The BMW M2 Coupé has already set the standard in its class when it comes to agility, driving feel, directional stability, steering precision and controllability at the limit.
All the control arms and hubs of the new five-link rear axle are made from forged aluminium. In addition, a racing-derived rigid connection, dispensing with rubber bushes, is used to fix the lightweight steel grid-type rear subframe to the body. This further improves wheel location and tracking stability.
M Sport brakes have larger pads (front axles: 400mm in diameter, rear axle: 380mm in diameter) and brake calipers (front axles: 6-piston fixed caliper, rear axle: 4-piston fixed caliper
Brian_Innes
Member
David,
In my experience thus far on track with my 718 CS, as I have specced it and set mine up, no BMW has even come close to keeping up with me on the twisty, quick directional changes, sections of the track.....and that was with P-Zeros fitted.
Bee Emms being front engined and rear wheel drive, cannot dynamically match the mid-engined Cayman through corners. End of.
As for your comment about the "981/718 platform very lacking in the rear suspension and with zero adjustment out of the box". I beg to differ. Granted, the 718 has very limited rear suspension adjustments available, but they are certainly not zero. Just scroll back a few pages on my 718 thread and look at my geo set print-out and you'll see quite a deviation from the standards stock settings.
I know you enjoy being provocative, it's part of your charm, but when it crosses into incredible statements such as "BMW punching Porsche in the face" I feel I have to speak out.
Brian
In my experience thus far on track with my 718 CS, as I have specced it and set mine up, no BMW has even come close to keeping up with me on the twisty, quick directional changes, sections of the track.....and that was with P-Zeros fitted.
Bee Emms being front engined and rear wheel drive, cannot dynamically match the mid-engined Cayman through corners. End of.
As for your comment about the "981/718 platform very lacking in the rear suspension and with zero adjustment out of the box". I beg to differ. Granted, the 718 has very limited rear suspension adjustments available, but they are certainly not zero. Just scroll back a few pages on my 718 thread and look at my geo set print-out and you'll see quite a deviation from the standards stock settings.
I know you enjoy being provocative, it's part of your charm, but when it crosses into incredible statements such as "BMW punching Porsche in the face" I feel I have to speak out.
Brian
Motorhead said:
Hi Jeff, the best audio clips so far from that 'Ring session I have heard are here: https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-forum/1064405-982-718-spyder-short-video-on-ring-testing-during-industry-pool.html (perhaps better than the Instagram ones, although there may be value in those as well)
Looks like you were right about it being 6-cylinder. What are your thoughts on turbo or NA? Sounds like the 3L TT to me but my ears are not as tuned in as yours are! I would like to add that it may be unlikely, but not impossible for the Spyder and GT4 to have different engine configurations
Ray said:
I am Not blinkered, which is what one make forums are which is a shame.
i have ran both a CSL and the V8 compition pack M3, both great drivers cars.
be interesting to see what Chris Harris says as it’s already on his want list on Twitter.
a speced up 718s is quite a lot more than the M2, so really you are putting the basic 2.0l car with options vs the M2 with options, I would be buying the M2.
i have had 7 Porsche’s true but I have had 93 cars. Not bringing track days into it as very few people venture on track And if I wanted a track hack it would neither be a Porsche or a BMW.
But most BMW are 50/50 split, the CSL was lapping the ring the same as the GT3 at the time, on sweapers the 50/50 split are the fastest. also you get zero understeer with the beemers.
Plus if you want to have a over steer play BMW will give you that for sure.
All have pros and cons. But for £50k you can buy a 400bhp RWD straight 6 Manual and that has to be a good thing in this day and age And would be a hoot to drive I reckon.
you have to goto the 911 range to match those stats At double the price.
as normal I,ll put my money where my mouth is and get one at some point I am a sucker for those rear arches
.PS, it even comes with super sports ;-p no p zero's to be seen on the M cars Lol
and due to the M4 lump it will remap to over 500bhp lol
4nroots said:
Thanks for the additional links.
As said on here seemingly endless times, it’s most likely to be a 4 litre flat-6 n/a engine - probably just a stroked version of the 3.8 litre. The 981/982 engine bay is incompatible with the Carrera’s flat-6 twin turbo arrangement due to space limitations; hence the change to a 4-pot turbo in the 718. On top of that, the intercooling arrangements for the two engines are totally different and incompatible, the f-6 using an air-to-air and the f-4 using an air-to-coolant system.
On past performance, as well as for engineering simplicity, I can’t see Porsche opting for different engines in the GT4 and Spyder.
Jeff
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