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Cayman GT4: Where are we up 2 now? Déjà vu Edition

I think I would like to see P have to deal with some more serious competition ...

At the hands of profit in the short term they are seriously upsetting some very long standing, loyal and influential brand ambassadors because they say they don't buy enough cars to justify an allocation for the one car they have put a long standing letter of intent for ... instead preferring to churn via a few hands sequential generations of limited edition cars through known safe hands and out through the dealer network, in exchange for the next limited edition car.

How much profit is there in 300 x four owner 5000 mile cars ? A lot more than in 300 x two owner cars !

If you were one of those customers of course you would take advantage of the opportunity ... but it alienates a lot of people and it only works if you have a lustful must-have in your control.

Out of principle, I would never pay overs for a secondhand car, however good it was.

This competition is the best way to persuade P dealers that they cannot take their customers for granted.

Many should remember a time when in 1992 P couldn't give new RHD 964RS away ... they tried to sell 100 in the UK and had to re-export a quarter of them to other RHD markets. So what made them the £250k spectacle that they have become ?

The enthusiasts who bought them up at £30k and showed how fab they were on road and track ... a band of P devotees who bought the things to use rather than to profit from.

Where are the Silverstone Classic displays of 964RS / 993RS these days ? The investor market has no interest in showing and driving their pride and joy, because it isn't (their pride and joy).

When the investors leave, where will that leave prices of the massively increased number of nearly new limited edition Porsches ??

A question to contemplate ...

Good competition is to my mind the best way of bringing this question to Porsche's attention ...

 
Motorhead said:
Thanks for the additional links.

As said on here seemingly endless times, it’s most likely to be a 4 litre flat-6 n/a engine - probably just a stroked version of the 3.8 litre. The 981/982 engine bay is incompatible with the Carrera’s flat-6 twin turbo arrangement due to space limitations; hence the change to a 4-pot turbo in the 718. On top of that, the intercooling arrangements for the two engines are totally different and incompatible, the f-6 using an air-to-air and the f-4 using an air-to-coolant system.

On past performance, as well as for engineering simplicity, I can’t see Porsche opting for different engines in the GT4 and Spyder.

Jeff

Thank you for your thoughtful response Jeff,

Interesting that you still lean towards the N/A 3.8-4.0 Flat 6 after hearing the Spyder's exhaust note! :)

 
Listening to those clips again I can’t say that the exhaust note is particularly sonorous - a bit flat sounding to be honest and turbo-like, but that could just be down to the exhaust system fitted to the car. Factors such as emissions and exterior noise levels will play a part in the exhaust design and I’ve a feeling that Porsche may be looking to fit particulate filters to their petrol engines in future. It’s certainly not a howling GT engine..!

I‘m not saying that it’s definitely not turbocharged, but unless Porsche has done some really significant re-engineering, I just can’t see how they can now squeeze in the Carrera engine and manage all the additional heat from those two turbos in the air-to-coolant intercooler. If they can do it for the more low volume, specialised GT4 and Spyder, it would beg the question why they’ve been saying they had to take the flat-4 turbo route for the 718.

Just my tuppence worth of course. I’ll probably be as surprised as everone else when the final product arrives..!

Jeff

 
There's more to the move to flat-four than just space issues I'm sure. Differentiation between the Cayster and 911 lines for marketing reasons, emissions and costs are likely to have played a part too.

 
That's certainly true David but a lot of additional engineering effort - and associated cost - has had to be put into the flat-4 turbo engine development, particularly in the complex intercooling arrangement. Transplanting the flat-6 turbo in the mid-engine chassis might have been a cheaper option if available.

Unless the GT boys have somehow conjoured up out of nowhere a straightforward and cost-effective solution to the space/intercooler problems, I can't see how the f-6 TT engine will find its way into the GT4/Spyder.

Jeff

 
Probably boils down to marketing/positioning as the main reason then. I wonder if simply re-positioning the turbos and intercooler could make it fit. It might explain the funky exhaust and diffuser arrangement?

I would have expected a 4.0 NA motor to use the central exhaust routing of the 981 GT4?

 
It would probably require some serious tin-bashing to shoehorn in the two turbos and their associated ducting to the intercooler - ducting's been tricky enough for the single turbo arrangement. I suppose they could have found space for just a single turbo somewhere, but then the exhaust has to be plumbed in somewhere. A nightmare either way..!

I've a feeling that the rather odd-looking diffuser arrangement has been led by the race car requirements for more rear downforce. Exhaust positioning has had to follow suit.

Jeff

 
Ray said:
BJ Innes said:
David,

In my experience thus far on track with my 718 CS, as I have specced it and set mine up, no BMW has even come close to keeping up with me on the twisty, quick directional changes, sections of the track.....and that was with P-Zeros fitted.

Bee Emms being front engined and rear wheel drive, cannot dynamically match the mid-engined Cayman through corners. End of.

As for your comment about the "981/718 platform very lacking in the rear suspension and with zero adjustment out of the box". I beg to differ. Granted, the 718 has very limited rear suspension adjustments available, but they are certainly not zero. Just scroll back a few pages on my 718 thread and look at my geo set print-out and you'll see quite a deviation from the standards stock settings.

I know you enjoy being provocative, it's part of your charm, but when it crosses into incredible statements such as "BMW punching Porsche in the face" I feel I have to speak out.

Brian
Brian,

In my experience he is on the wrong forum. As good as BMW are people on this forum are in the main Porsche driven.

Ray

Agreed. BMW can do whatever they want with their new cars they have zero attraction to me. Porsche...there is not substitute ....as the saying goes [:D]

 
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.

My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.

Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!

Jeff

 
Motorhead said:
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.

My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.

Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!

Jeff

@Motorhead, Master audio sleuth right here^ !!!

 
Haa..! We're just trying to apply a bit of science to head-off the seemingly endless speculation roots. But we can only analyse the data as presented and put on our own interpretation from experience; and it is just an interpretation.

Of course, the next topic will be manual transmission, PDK or both..?? I rather fancy both options this time around. Some high-speed gear shifts on the 'Ring would be helpful to establish the presence of the semi-auto 'box.

Jeff

 
Motorhead said:
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.

My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.

Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!

Jeff

So what's the bet on being right going to be Jeff.....your house, your kids, your Cayman or just a tenner? [:D]

 
Good call Steve.

I'm not a betting man myself but I'd have to say that it's definitely going to be a 6-pot and, for the numerous reasons I've given previous posts, I just can't see it being turbocharged. Of course, if anyone can come up with a convincing argument as to how the small GT development group somehow have succeeded with shoehorning the flat-6 TT into the 982 engine bay with no detrimental effects when the mainstream 982 development group haven't been able to then I'm willing to reconsider.

Based on that synopsis, you can now head off to BetFred to make a few quid to put towards the Gen2 for when you trade in your GT4..!

Touché..?

Jeff

 
Touche indeed Jeff...but of course you know I was joshing. [;)]

I'm intrigued, like many, to see what the new one will be. But TBH that's as far as it goes. The old one ticks all the boxes for me and I already think that I will be holding on to it for some time yet. [:)]

 
On topic :)

After the CR it felt like P had created the GT4 just for me ...

I don't believe anybody ever really expected that Porsche would challenge the 911 with a GT Cayman.

I still love it and for use on track have sold all others, and kept this ... accepted with the added spice of a few modifications which I believe are improvements .... what amazing value !

 
Chris,

It seems that most GT4 owners are equally enthusiastic about their car. Very much a case of the whole being better than the sum of its parts perhaps?

It's a difficult act for the next version to follow. We'll just have to wait and see what the GT boys have got up their sleeves this time - more of the same or a step-up..??

Jeff

 
Hi hope you all enjoying the nice weather at last. Owners of Cayman 987 if you fancy a upgrade on your front end ive a friend who is now making bumpers the same as the GT4 with led lights and the side intake air vents no cutting they just bolt straight on my car is going to be done in next 2 weeks then ill get some photos on here to show you all the best bit because he makes them himself they are a reasonable price

 
Mark,

It's probably best to start a new post rather than hijack this particular thread where it'll get buried.

Jeff

 

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