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Cheap or What or What What?

If you've a bit of time to kill.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/365081-73-rs-fraud-must-read.html


 
Not cheap at all. Sold at auction for 60k a couple of months ago Inc premiums so that is net circa 50k. It's not the original 73rs but a rebodied T and not done by factory and with dubious stampings to say the least.

Your about 5 years late on the story of this one DES.... Plenty about it on ddk too.
 
Suddenly a recreation on a 3.2 Carrera chassis sounds like a cheaper option and there will be no doubting of its originality...
 
Ok i tried to read as much of the thread on pelican as I could but i began to lose the will to live. Can someone give a "short " version. With maybe some of the finer points?
 
Jason posted a reasonable precis above,,,or just wait for the film to come out, there are enough twists and turns!
 
Was curious as to how the car ended up in the UK and what role Andy Prill played in all this(he is mentioned in the ad i think ). From the posts I have read it seams "the specialist" in Germany owned the car for 11 years without knowing it had "dubious" stampings. All very weird?
 
seconded Laurence... will to live fading fast trying to comprehend Pesto...

waded thru story of exposing #406 which is interesting... but what was the upshot of Pesto and #316? Sounded like someone had rebodied it way back when until I got to hims whingeing about the carbs???? Then I gave him up as a t*sser I'm afraid...

Do think you'd feel a prat driving up to the factory and asking them to restore your fake though... that'd smart...

Cheers
Rick
 
ORIGINAL: oldtimer

Moderator ! Des is filling up this forum with pistonheads trivia . Repost to GT3 please .....

I am sure many readers of this forum have not seen this subject and bearing in mind the number of "fake" 964RS and rebodied and converted and reshelled cars here, thought it might be of interest. I certainly was to me .... it may well be in timethey start creating GT3 replica .... time moves on and the evolution of the 911 and it's corrupters with it .... still a member here as well[;)]
 
Graham summed it up on DDK quite nicely.....

Pesto360 bought it then found it was rebodied from something else. The stamps of the bodywork were forged.

Then pesto got thrown in the clink in the US for "whitecollar crime".

The car was in the care of one of pesto's friends in Italy.

Whilst pesto was inside, another of his "friends" instructed the guy in italy to sell it, which he did to an Italian dealer. The "friend" (not the one in italy) trousers the cash.

The car is then for sale in italy...advertised warts and all, rebodied pseudo RS.

Then it appears for sale on a UK website (Paul Ripley Auto Legends) as a proper RS again.

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/63074

Paul ripley is made aware of the story. Takes it off sale, has been done over by someone importing it from Italy to the UK. Says it's a forged car, reported to DVLA, never to be seen again!

Lo and behold pesto turns up, wants his car back even though it's a faker.

Paul then commented on the sale......

"To one and all

Re my 1973 Porsche 911 2.7RS Carrera Touring.

I cannot believe that people think I would openly sell a car that could be described as 'an illegal and fraudulent'. Those who know me personally, know I am a totally 100% honest person and feel that my integrity and reputation is being questioned.

I will endeavour to explain the position, because my reputation is at stake here - and also explain how and why, the car is in fact, a genuine 2.7RS Carrera Touring!

I purchased the above car in late May last year from a UK seller as a genuine 1973 2.7RS Carrera Touring. Shortly after purchasing the car I got an email from the seller, saying that the car was re-bodied. Having thought I was buying a 'genuine RS' and not a re-bodied RS, I asked for my money back. This request was refused.

I was then faced with taking it on the chin financially, or going down the legal route to get my money back. I had little option but to choose the latter because of the high monetary value of the car involved. This has proved to be the most horrendous and stressful period of my life, both financially and personally and resulted in the closure of a business I was running at the time.

Legal proceedings were started and after a period of time, the defendants Solicitor in the case, decided to request a detailed 'Expert Witness Inspection and Report' to be carried out on the car. This proved to be a most enlightening element in the legal case and brought about many points of vital and previously unknown information about the car.

I am in possession of this report, which was undertaken by one of the World's leading, best known and respected RS experts. He had to answer and address a multitude of questions raised by my legal counsel.

The 7 page report confirmed that the car had been re-bodied (like so many other RS's that were used in some form of competition as this car probably was in it's early years). However, he also reported that the VIN number and its stamping were the 'original' 1973 Porsche factory VIN plate and had the original Porsche factory stamping. The expert involved in this report, also asked for a 'second expert opinion' on this highly pertinent point. He also confirmed the VIN # and stamping were the original 1973 Porsche factory VIN plate and stamping.

Because I am selling a totally legal and genuine 2.7RS Carrera Touring, this report is available to any potential buyer and will stay with the cars comprehensive history file in the future.

Many other areas and points were covered in the report and I have advertised the car as a re-bodied and genuine 2.7RS Carrera Touring, which is exactly what it is and the expansive experts report, confirms every single detail to prove this.

Whilst the car has also appeared on other forums, I am the one who has been down the legal route to establish the car's legality, identity and authenticity, so I am one of the few people on the planet who know about this car and would appreciate that people dont jump to conclusions too hastily before knowing the full facts.

If this car had its original body and was in similar concourse condition as this car currently is, it would be selling for around the £150,000 mark. Whilst an RS replica in this condition, would sell for around the £55,000 to £65,000 mark. After talking to several RS experts, who all said the same thing, that the price of my car would be 'in between' these figures - and thats exactly where it is at £105,000 or near offer.

So just for the record .... I am selling a re-bodied genuine 1973 2.7RS Carrera Touring which has a newly rebuilt engine, a brand new Porsche replacement gearbox (done at the Porsche factory) and is now back into it's original Porsche factory colour of India Red - the paintwork is concourse.

The legal process has cost me a heap of money, but I now know I am selling a totally legal RS which has been proved through the legal process.

May I finally point out that so many other RS's were re-bodied because of what they were used for it their day - racing and competition use. Many were crashed, as this car probably was, and Porsche ran out of RS bodies back in the 1970's.

I am not a dishonest person in any way, shape or form. I am selling what has been proved to be a fully and totally legal re-bodied 1973 2.7RS Carerra Touring (exactly as I have advertised the car).
I hope this explains my position and what I have been through over the previous 12 months to unearth and uncover the cars previous history.

I would dearly like to keep the car as it's superb to drive and is in concourse condition. But because of a new business venture, the car has to be sold and will be sold with all the pertinent facts I have uncovered through the lenghty legal process and route I have undertaken - this of course, will be disclosed to any potential purchaser.

Paul Ripley "


This was generally disagreed with because:-

1) The reshelling was not done by Porsche nor was the restamping of the VIN done using the correct dies/stamps - in fact nobody seems to know when or by whom the reshelling was done

2) The restamped aluminium VIN tag on the front slam panel uses incorrect 'font'

3) This car does not have the original engine fitted to '1316' by the Factory

4) This car does not have the original transmission fitted to '1316' by the Factory

5) The production number does not match that of the original (1316) car

& so on ... so how can this car be described as a 'genuine 2.7 RS Carrera Touring' ???

The above is also why a huge amount of discredit is given to the 'specialists' report done to try and prove the car legit on the car by many people and a number are wondering why on earth they put their name to it????



Car ended up going to auction a few months ago and selling for £60,000 including buyers premium.
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4375874&iSaleNo=17261&iSaleSectionNo=2


Car turns up again on Pistonheads with sale ad veering towards this being a genuine RS....AGAIN[8|]


People make the sellers aware of this cars history (me included) and so ad is 're-written' and now looks like this:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1412652.htm

In my opinion very nice replica car at £50k...above that its, well its not a genuine one. Take the car to Germany and ask them to verify it as a 2.7RS and they wouldn't.

Does that sum it up?????[:D][:D][:D]

 
Thanks Jason! Must admit after I posted, I got hooked and waded all the way to the end.... but glad to see a second opinion of the "content"... read it the same way in the end... better than a novel!
 
Many thanks for that Jason. I did get bored by page 15 on the Pelicanparts forum. As you say, at £50K it seems good value even with the history. When it gets to £80K the stigma attached will always make it difficult to sell.
 
ORIGINAL: oldtimer

Moderator ! Des is filling up this forum with pistonheads trivia . Repost to GT3 please .....

GT3 = trivia, yes, cannot but agree.

However, the Pesto car as interest for us? -absolutley, since with the escalating value of our cars, and the number of replicas being produced, this could so easily happen to a 964RS...............
 
Must admit, was thinking about this last night and I'm astonished that the "experts" put their names to it... can only assume it's got an awful lot of authentic (minor) parts but whether any of them come from #1316 seem incredibly dubious.
There's a huge amount to be learned from this for our community, simply because as a cynic you could say this is just an old 911 shell with a random RS motor sourced from somewhere and the VIN off a missing RS attached. The factory don't consider it real... but it is being marketed as such.
But, anyone buying a car with an obviously dubious VIN plate that admits to having neither the shell, gearbox nor motor of the original is either a mug, or simply wants something that currently has the ability to get into the right events at the price of a good replica... question is, how much longer will event organisers tolerate bitsa's like this? For example the Mille Miglia insist on a car inspection that needs to show all major components are original, will this attitude filter down?
Will this chassis # become known as a shadow of it's real self?
 

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