Cup bargain

[ChrisW]

In racing the cars were often supplied with spare engines and therefore, it's the shell number that's the only common theme.

With later cars such my ALMS GT3r there is only the documented racing record which can be found merely by inserting the vin number into Google --- seriously.

Plus the competition stickers inside the car. But for the whole of the 2002 ALMS year there is only one sticker with the original car number .. !

In fact Porsche will generally not give the original engine and gearbox numbers because of this ..

 

[PhilRS]

This is the written record of the car's racing history. Precious in my view.

ORIGINAL: mld

That brings me nicely on to my next question 'The Wagenpass!'. How important is it, especially if you know who the relevant owners and racers were? Would you rather have matching Engine/box numbers or Wagenpass?

ORIGINAL: PhilRS

For race cars, I would say that racing history/provenance supersede matching numbers (for the gearbox and engine that is, because you do want the original shell).

 

[Melv]

Wagenpass.....

If only I could find mine........[]

 

[paul howells]

History on racers are most important,most racers that have matching numbers generally don't have much race history,more so on earlier cars,later cars the engines are more reliable and also timed for rebuilds unlike most of the early racers.
The wagenpass is great ,but not essential,same as matching engine and box,does not seem to effect the value to much,but may be a deal breaker over another car, of course it helps that little bit more on the provenance of the car.
My 993rsr was supplied with 2 engines, both engines are on the build sheet with the car.

mel how did you get on at the hotel,i was late getting back from oulton to see you.

 

[Hacki]

What Phil says.

ORIGINAL: PhilRS

This is the written record of the car's racing history. Precious in my view.

ORIGINAL: mld

That brings me nicely on to my next question 'The Wagenpass!'. How important is it, especially if you know who the relevant owners and racers were? Would you rather have matching Engine/box numbers or Wagenpass?
[

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: paul howells

History on racers are most important,most racers that have matching numbers generally don't have much race history,more so on earlier cars,later cars the engines are more reliable and also timed for rebuilds unlike most of the early racers.
The wagenpass is great ,but not essential,same as matching engine and box,does not seem to effect the value to much,but may be a deal breaker over another car, of course it helps that little bit more on the provenance of the car.

Precise statement, I agree except ref. the Wagenpaß. Having that is in my opinion more than great, it´s a precious part of the history documentation.

Rgds,

Hacki

 

[mld]

Thanks for the pointers everyone, This will be the first racer I've ever bought and i don't want to make a big financial mistake.[]

The shell number is located on the pacelshelf and somewhere near the ashtray on the dash, can anyone tell me exactly where? When i have found it how can i check its the right shell number??

ORIGINAL: PhilRS

For race cars, I would say that racing history/provenance supersede matching numbers (for the gearbox and engine that is, because you do want the original shell).

 

[chfs911]

PM the Oracle!

Shell should start 1505xxx for LS Cups.

Some on the market are reshells and I have had to break the news to the owners!

Some for sale have no original parts as far as I can see!

 

[ChrisW]

Just caught up with this -- I have had Wagenpass with German road cars, but would one of these have existed with my ALMS GT3r ??

I have more paperwork on the Brian James trailer than I have on that !

What I do have is copies of the original LMGT01 Homologation papers specific to the chassis number of the car, homologated 16/2/01 in the LM GT class.

There is then a summary of all the serial numbers of the car, but no numbers of mechanical components.

Will Porsche have or release the original build information ?

 

[chfs911]

Try the Kettle forum Chris! This thread is on the first 50 real Cup cars only.

ONS can supply the Wagenpass no. for your 003 if you give them your VIN. But only if registered and raced in Germany

They only have copies from 1995.

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: chfs911

Try the Kettle forum Chris!   This thread is on the first 50 real Cup cars only.ONS can supply the Wagenpass no. for your 003 if you give them your VIN.  But only if registered and raced in Germany

They only have copies from 1995.

The continent is proud of you, Charles.

@Chris: Ready to support you with German officials anytime.


Rgds,

Hacki

 

[chfs911]

Hacki,

I need to update your Cup info. Are you coming to Spa?

Got details on a very original LS cup with matching nos.

Charles

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: chfs911

Hacki,

         I need to update your Cup info.  Are you coming to Spa?

Got details on a very original LS cup with matching nos.

Charles

Charles,

will not be at Spa.

I know only one original LS Cup with matching nos.

Details, pls!


Hacki

 

[ChrisW]

ORIGINAL: Hacki

ORIGINAL: chfs911

Try the Kettle forum Chris!   This thread is on the first 50 real Cup cars only.ONS can supply the Wagenpass no. for your 003 if you give them your VIN.  But only if registered and raced in Germany

They only have copies from 1995.

The continent is proud of you, Charles.

@Chris: Ready to support you with German officials anytime.


Rgds,

Hacki

Many thanks Hacki, just surfacing after Badminton, Croft, and family over for Easter. Have just obtained all the original Vector files and a set of Vinyl for the GT3r and the Acemco race team are looking to see what documentation remains with them ... I could submit a Build Spec form to PCGB, but was told that they will often not provide the information for race cars ... ?

The Vin number is WPOZZZ99Z2S692095 ...

 

[chfs911]

1990 964 Cup Car/993 RSR No. 6 LS series the one before Colin's Cup.

ex Brymer Lemans car and Daytona class winner is for sale around £50 K

Converted to 993 RSR with RSR engine.

Anyone interested? I have the details

 

[Damen]

Charles

Hasn't that been for sale for ages in the US?

It's a bitsa at best, so is it really worth £50k? If so, what price a good Cup these days?

Damen

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: Damen

what price a good Cup these days?

Damen

It depends on the car, as always. The ex Sandro Angelastri Cup is for sale for 60k EURO (for a long time), don´t know about the condition. It´s probably ready for Clubsport, it will have the normal battle scars and maybe engine and/or gearbox have been replaced and/or modified.

A vipergreen 1991 Cup in very good, but not 100% original condition was offered in Essen for 148k EURO, a bit optimistic. A good, original Cup with matching nos. will be hard to find and if for sale, prob like 100k EUR.

The "normal" Cups with a history as mentioned above should sell for 60 - 70k EURO.

Cars with racing history and famous drivers seem to be way more expensive.[]



Hope, that helps


Rgds,

Hacki

 

[Damen]

Hacki

Interesting thoughts, thanks.

Mine is original and ran in the Carrera Cup in Germany in 1991 (car number 42 driven by Enrico Walcher; his father ran Porsche Italia, with a best finish of 3rd place at the Norisring). It then did a limited number of endurance races in 1992 including a win at Spa and then sat dormant until being sold to the US in 2000, where it raced in PCA championship until 2009. It will have certainly have had the odd bump in races but it is still in pretty good shape!!

I'm enjoying too much to contemplate selling!!!

Damen

Damen

 

[clubsport]

ORIGINAL: chfs911

1990 964 Cup Car/993 RSR  No. 6 LS series the one before Colin's Cup.

ex Brymer Lemans car and Daytona class winner is for sale around £50 K

Converted to 993 RSR with RSR engine.

Anyone interested?  I have the details

I am intrigued how the 964 cup was converted to a 993 RSR.....engine is one thing, you could change the wings, but what about the rear suspension set up.....???

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: Damen

Hacki

Interesting thoughts, thanks.

Mine is original and ran in the Carrera Cup in Germany in 1991 (car number 42 driven by Enrico Walcher; his father ran Porsche Italia, with a best finish of 3rd place at the Norisring). It then did a limited number of endurance races in 1992 including a win at Spa and then sat dormant until being sold to the US in 2000, where it raced in PCA championship until 2009. It will have certainly have had the odd bump in races but it is still in pretty good shape!!

I'm enjoying too much to contemplate selling!!!

Damen

Damen

Was your car run by team Porsche Zentrum Bielefeld in 1991 ?

Hacki