cylinder bore linings
- Thread starter soli
- Start date
Sure. I bought a 1986 turbo a week and a half ago supposedly in mint condition. It looks like it on the outside. But on the way home engine got overheated and all of a sudden no water. Refilled it and managed to get back home without overheating. Next morning no water again and mayonnaise in oil. Got a rescue to the garage. They found a hole in the radiator. And obviously HG gone. And then scotch marks on the cylinder liner. Of course seller says it is my fault and that the overheating caused everything and there was nothing wrong with radiator. 3 experts tell me otherwise especially since there were problems with over boosting before I purchased which would cause exactly this issue. But never mind. Now I need a complete engine rebuilt which would be at least 3.5k+vat from the one place I found that can do this. I don't have the money as I spent it all on the "mint" car. So am a bit at a loss of what to do. The garage tells me this needs to be done and if I don't do it they want me to sign a form stating that it's not their responsibility what happens next to the engine as I didn't follow their recommendation. 2 garages told me it needs to be done. I am just trying to reduce the cost and the bad feeling I have really. Or I can just sell the car for parts and recover what I can
Cheers
Cheers
simkin911
New member
I am sorry Soli but I can't help you unravel the chain of events here. However, in response to your opening post, I can tell you that there are turbos out there (and other 944s of different varieties no doubt) running around with bore scratches and performing 'adequately' with perhaps with the exception of excessive oil use.
Soli, I think I would try a head gasket and get the car back up and running, see how it goes for a few hundred miles, keep an eye on the oil level/usage, all may be fine, as said there will be 944's running about with similar or worse bores.
If it runs fine you can then plan your next move as and when funds allow, if the whole episode has tainted you on this car it will sell better as an up and running car than a breaker, EBay is full of 944 parts and breaker cars for little money, don't join them mate.
Another option would be an engine swap from an accident damaged car but who's to say the bores would be any better ?
All the best, Paul
If it runs fine you can then plan your next move as and when funds allow, if the whole episode has tainted you on this car it will sell better as an up and running car than a breaker, EBay is full of 944 parts and breaker cars for little money, don't join them mate.
Another option would be an engine swap from an accident damaged car but who's to say the bores would be any better ?
All the best, Paul
Soli, bad luck with the engine. The bore scoring could have been caused by the oil film breaking down as a result of overheating and possibly of the oil being degraded due to water contamination, not necessarily due to overboost issues. It is difficult to tell from the picture how bad it is, can you feel it with your fingernails? Is it one cylinder or all of them?
As an aside, when I bought my turbo last year it needed the belts doing (they were 10 years old) and an oil leak between the cam tower and the head fixing, I decided I may as well do the head whilst I was at it. When I removed the head the head gasket (probably the 23 year old original) was absolutely rotten and yet at that point it had not failed and there was no clue as to its condition. I would say anyone running one of these cars on an original head gasket would be well advised to change it.
As an aside, when I bought my turbo last year it needed the belts doing (they were 10 years old) and an oil leak between the cam tower and the head fixing, I decided I may as well do the head whilst I was at it. When I removed the head the head gasket (probably the 23 year old original) was absolutely rotten and yet at that point it had not failed and there was no clue as to its condition. I would say anyone running one of these cars on an original head gasket would be well advised to change it.
ChasR
New member
It is surprising how well they can run with scored bores. My S2 ran for ages on a severely scored bore. In the end excessive smoke on flooring the car (it was terrible) caused me to chuck in another engine. The garage (a known specialist on here) said that overheating would cause the bores to be scored.
I should have taken a picture of the bore from the S2, but that bore looked as if a tiger was trying to escape from it! I bought the car with a knackered bore mind you.
I should have taken a picture of the bore from the S2, but that bore looked as if a tiger was trying to escape from it! I bought the car with a knackered bore mind you.
MartinRS2K
Active member
Not a mechanical expert (I leave that to others), but if my temp gauge went into the red and there was no water in my radiator my next call would have been to the RAC to get the car recovered. I wouldn't have risked driving another mile (especially on a Motorway) as you will do more damage no matter how careful you are.
If would also get the head gasket replaced and a new radiator fitted and see how it goes for a few hundred miles before considering a replacement engine or other things.
If would also get the head gasket replaced and a new radiator fitted and see how it goes for a few hundred miles before considering a replacement engine or other things.
ChasR
New member
Without doing a 'holier than thou' spiel my friend suffered the same thing with an Audi A4 convertible (overheated in the middle of the Birmingham Ring Road during rush hour!). Despite him not being quite as car savvy as many of us he had it towed away to avoid any further damage, and that was with him annoying other motorists, not to mention policemen getting rowdy with him etc. That was on a car which cost less than £4k.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
That's my thoughts as well.
£3.5K to sort that scoring sounds more like building a race engine: I'd be living with it, or dropping one in from a scrapper.
My main worry is the garage wanting a signed disclaimer? Is this them saying they won't warranty the HG and radiator unless there is a complete engine rebuild, including piston liners, carried out by someone else??
Sounds like they either don't want the work, or are you possibly asking them to guarantee things that aren't part of the HG replacement?
I would agree with those that suggest putting the head back on and running it for a while... I had a similar dilemma after pulling the head as a result of a failed head gasket, to find badly eroded water galleries... At the time I thought "lucky if it'll do another 3k miles", so didn't do any of the work I would usually do, such as lapping in valves... It continued to do another 30k miles, not out... And I have taken engines apart with no apparent problems with boresthat look worse than that...
Well gents this was my old 220, just to put things straight, the car is immaculate never welded, bashed with all original panels, Soli was dead keen to come and see the car but i told him to hold off as the car needed the belts doing as they were 4 years old.
New belts were fitted along with an oil weep from the diff oil cooler, a weep from the oil pressure sender (chopped a spanner down to get it) the short exhaust from wastgate to the exhaust was also replaced as this had been welded at some stage and never sealed correctly, managed to snap the studs in the wastgate so this was drilled and re tapped, the rear shocks were also replaced.
I was blamed for knowing about the radiator being faulty ? i have explained that should i have known this it would have been changed (i have a spare in the garage) why would i not change it ? an hour of my time tops.
The car was on the lift at a friends garage with 2 of us at it from 09.30 to 18.30 and there was no signs of any leakage.
The previous day it had done 30 odd miles running about in mixed traffic with no issues.
I spent a further £350 on paint to get the bodywork minty, sill steps blown over to cover some shoe scuffs and the badge panel removed and repainted for 2 scratches and some chips, before pictures were sent to Soli to let him know that it was not covering up anything nasty.
I am now being blamed for a fault on a vacuum hose, i think he is saying it is the wastegate actuator hose ?
The car ran as it should and boosted on and off as it should.(with overboost protection in place)
Soli was told of any known faults, sunroof not working, drivers electric seat not working on recline which requires a switch.
The car did not use excessive oil, some on start up after standing for a while, and maybe 500ml every 1k.
I sold the car to him in good faith with all known faults repaired or pointed out to him before point of sale, when i found out the HG had failed i sent him a spare i have in the garage (there was also some intimation here as why would i have a spare HG)
All this was a job lot of bits from Alasdair.(not that i should have to explain myself [
] )
I also sent him a fresh oil filter and sourced him a new radiator which i went halfers (near enough) on.
I think i have been more that fair to help out.
I have said my bit on here on the matter, i never intended to do..............................make of it what you will.
New belts were fitted along with an oil weep from the diff oil cooler, a weep from the oil pressure sender (chopped a spanner down to get it) the short exhaust from wastgate to the exhaust was also replaced as this had been welded at some stage and never sealed correctly, managed to snap the studs in the wastgate so this was drilled and re tapped, the rear shocks were also replaced.
I was blamed for knowing about the radiator being faulty ? i have explained that should i have known this it would have been changed (i have a spare in the garage) why would i not change it ? an hour of my time tops.
The car was on the lift at a friends garage with 2 of us at it from 09.30 to 18.30 and there was no signs of any leakage.
The previous day it had done 30 odd miles running about in mixed traffic with no issues.
I spent a further £350 on paint to get the bodywork minty, sill steps blown over to cover some shoe scuffs and the badge panel removed and repainted for 2 scratches and some chips, before pictures were sent to Soli to let him know that it was not covering up anything nasty.
I am now being blamed for a fault on a vacuum hose, i think he is saying it is the wastegate actuator hose ?
The car ran as it should and boosted on and off as it should.(with overboost protection in place)
Soli was told of any known faults, sunroof not working, drivers electric seat not working on recline which requires a switch.
The car did not use excessive oil, some on start up after standing for a while, and maybe 500ml every 1k.
I sold the car to him in good faith with all known faults repaired or pointed out to him before point of sale, when i found out the HG had failed i sent him a spare i have in the garage (there was also some intimation here as why would i have a spare HG)
All this was a job lot of bits from Alasdair.(not that i should have to explain myself [
] )I also sent him a fresh oil filter and sourced him a new radiator which i went halfers (near enough) on.
I think i have been more that fair to help out.
I have said my bit on here on the matter, i never intended to do..............................make of it what you will.
Suffolk944
Moderator
I do find Soli's garages insistence on signed disclaimers and push for him to shell out a huge amount of money for a rebuild that the car probably doesn't need somewhat unhelpful. Those bores don't look that bad and a full rebuild seems OTT to me. Just out of interest Soli who have you talked to about the problem so far I terms of garages/experts ?
My first turbo was sold by myself with a known problem with a badly scored bore (at a hefty discount !) and last I heard its still running around perfectly happily on that engine and without any remedial work. Sold it four years ago now and wish I hadn't as it was a very early 220 model.
My first turbo was sold by myself with a known problem with a badly scored bore (at a hefty discount !) and last I heard its still running around perfectly happily on that engine and without any remedial work. Sold it four years ago now and wish I hadn't as it was a very early 220 model.
944 man
Active member
My advice would be to have a new headgasket fitted and to ensure that the coolant IN was measured to the millilitre. Drive the car and evaluate it.
If it turns out that the (slightly) scored bores are an issue then speak to another garage. I would recommend EMC for both knowledge, ability and value. JMG and Hartech are both excellent, but Id expect them to be a good deal dearer.
I also appreciate Kevin Eacock's no-sh*t outlook and advice. Disclaimers will not be required, although a thick skin may be.
If it turns out that the (slightly) scored bores are an issue then speak to another garage. I would recommend EMC for both knowledge, ability and value. JMG and Hartech are both excellent, but Id expect them to be a good deal dearer.
I also appreciate Kevin Eacock's no-sh*t outlook and advice. Disclaimers will not be required, although a thick skin may be.
So we all agree with me, get a gasket on, drive it, regular checks, see how she goes []
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