Eau Rouge! Eau Heck!!!
- Thread starter Melv
- Start date
Steve Brookes
Moderator
Some of the comments below the video from the internet warriors are hilarious [
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prefer the F1 quali clip tbh. The other one does look like it's poorly thrown together, couldn't see any GT' race cars and the track merge just looked all wrong due to the two seperate camera angles.
Mansell Senna first to go flat out ..... Phil Schyns (964RSR) technique of stamping the brake at the first Apex setting up a flat out attack seems to be correct for the 964 .... anyone else has a view, Paul H, Melv, Sean E?
What is the gradient of Eau Rouge?
What is the gradient of Eau Rouge?
PhilRS
New member
It is worthwhile to listen to F1s going through Eau-Rouge, or even the GT cars at the 24 hours.
The F1 literally do not lift, not even a breather, and the only changes in the revs that one can hear arise from the left and right Gs and the steep slope that tax the engine. The first time I heard this (in F1 practice) my jaw dropped.
I seem to remember Sean Edwards telling me that he did not lift (with the 997 Cup on qualif tyres).
It is not too hard to keep the pedal to the metal when turning left toward Eau-Rouge and brake in the compression before turning right. First time will be a bit scary but on a full throttle the car will gently understeer when heading to the left apex of Eau-Rouge--it just requires a firm grip on the steering wheel because the forces at that speed can be felt! And then with the compression and the steep hill, I am told that the transition to the right uphill raidillon apex can be managed with a breather of the throttle, on a 964/993 on slicks and maybe a quick flick of the wheel to counter the starting of a a slide. I saw a Swiss driver in a 3.0 SC/RS doing just this lap after lap years ago and it was quite spectacular.
But I have yet to try []
The F1 literally do not lift, not even a breather, and the only changes in the revs that one can hear arise from the left and right Gs and the steep slope that tax the engine. The first time I heard this (in F1 practice) my jaw dropped.
I seem to remember Sean Edwards telling me that he did not lift (with the 997 Cup on qualif tyres).
It is not too hard to keep the pedal to the metal when turning left toward Eau-Rouge and brake in the compression before turning right. First time will be a bit scary but on a full throttle the car will gently understeer when heading to the left apex of Eau-Rouge--it just requires a firm grip on the steering wheel because the forces at that speed can be felt! And then with the compression and the steep hill, I am told that the transition to the right uphill raidillon apex can be managed with a breather of the throttle, on a 964/993 on slicks and maybe a quick flick of the wheel to counter the starting of a a slide. I saw a Swiss driver in a 3.0 SC/RS doing just this lap after lap years ago and it was quite spectacular.
But I have yet to try [
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But you are the Professor![]
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Sorry melv you obviously enjoyed it(takes all sorts i suppose[] . I thought it poorly made sh1te. Each to his own . [8D]
] . I thought it poorly made sh1te. Each to his own . [8D]
Hacki
Active member
ORIGINAL: PhilRS
And then with the compression and the steep hill, I am told that the transition to the right uphill raidillon apex can be managed with a breather of the throttle, on a 964/993 on slicks and maybe a quick flick of the wheel to counter the starting of a a slide. I saw a Swiss driver in a 3.0 SC/RS doing just this lap after lap years ago and it was quite spectacular.
But I have yet to try [
If that means no braking before the compression, I doubt it will work with a 964 RS or Cup, even on slicks. It for sure is not (repeat: NOT) possible on street legal tyres.
PhilRS
New member
Breaking in the compression is definitely the first thing to try. But it is easy to brake too much in the compression when facing the wall []
This Eau-Rouge to Raidillon transition at Spa is where the difference is most felt between a racing chassis, a street RS, or a street 911, because the chassis loads up one way, then the other, at speed. 911s, as we know, love this.
When I had my 964 RS I always wondered how others seem to take it so much faster than me. I even spun in the process of furthering my understanding []. And then I acquired a stiffer chassis and had an epiphany.
BTW, who has spun (and why) in or around Eau-Rouge/Raidillon? I am aware of a few on this forum and they might want to share their stories.
Here is mine. I just tried a bit too hard with a 964 RS on Michelin Cups and there was a damp patch at the apex of Raidillon about halfway up the hill. I felt the car go very suddenly, went immediately into big opposite lock, but the car had already gone way too far and so I abandoned opposite lock and did instead a full 360 (keeping my trajectory, countless hours of driving simulators--and some luck--helped a lot here because I knew the otherwise uncommon routine).
]This Eau-Rouge to Raidillon transition at Spa is where the difference is most felt between a racing chassis, a street RS, or a street 911, because the chassis loads up one way, then the other, at speed. 911s, as we know, love this.
When I had my 964 RS I always wondered how others seem to take it so much faster than me. I even spun in the process of furthering my understanding [
]. And then I acquired a stiffer chassis and had an epiphany.BTW, who has spun (and why) in or around Eau-Rouge/Raidillon? I am aware of a few on this forum and they might want to share their stories.
Here is mine. I just tried a bit too hard with a 964 RS on Michelin Cups and there was a damp patch at the apex of Raidillon about halfway up the hill. I felt the car go very suddenly, went immediately into big opposite lock, but the car had already gone way too far and so I abandoned opposite lock and did instead a full 360 (keeping my trajectory, countless hours of driving simulators--and some luck--helped a lot here because I knew the otherwise uncommon routine).
ORIGINAL: Hacki
ORIGINAL: PhilRS
And then with the compression and the steep hill, I am told that the transition to the right uphill raidillon apex can be managed with a breather of the throttle, on a 964/993 on slicks and maybe a quick flick of the wheel to counter the starting of a a slide. I saw a Swiss driver in a 3.0 SC/RS doing just this lap after lap years ago and it was quite spectacular.
But I have yet to try [
If that means no braking before the compression, I doubt it will work with a 964 RS or Cup, even on slicks. It for sure is not (repeat: NOT) possible on street legal tyres.
ORIGINAL: Hacki
ORIGINAL: PhilRS
And then with the compression and the steep hill, I am told that the transition to the right uphill raidillon apex can be managed with a breather of the throttle, on a 964/993 on slicks and maybe a quick flick of the wheel to counter the starting of a a slide. I saw a Swiss driver in a 3.0 SC/RS doing just this lap after lap years ago and it was quite spectacular.
But I have yet to try [
If that means no braking before the compression, I doubt it will work with a 964 RS or Cup, even on slicks. It for sure is not (repeat: NOT) possible on street legal tyres.
What he said! I wasnt even flat on the way in to be honest, nor were most of the RSs I saw at Spa trip last year.
Most scary for me was a 2.0 '65 911 on L's A little slide 1/2 way up brought sweat on my brow (I wasnt even fast!), and getting harassed by ST s and Cobras over the top I didnt enjoy. Rest of the lap was great fun, way too much risk for me through that section though.
PhilRS
New member
I swear, but I meant braking in the compression, at the apex. I have never tried going past the apex without braking.
I am in the RSR on slicks here, but it is also easy to do with a 964 Cup on Michelin Cups (Charles'). Listen to the engine note.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMbAN6nDuQ0
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i have stood and watched the fast guys using this technique(braking just before the left hand apex) for years at Spa. But honestly never had the courage to actually try it myself until my last time at Spa two years ago now.I would normally do the easy thing (brake in a nice straight line) It took quite a bit of watching others do it in their cars before i had a go. Even then I couldn't go into the turn without a lift before braking. The amazing thing is that after you try it you realise just how little braking is needed. I think after two years away I would have to build up to it again. I must stress i am only talking about the first turn to the left hand apex. I whimp out after that.
And Hugh your not alone finding it a tad worrying being overtaken at the top !
And Hugh your not alone finding it a tad worrying being overtaken at the top !
I drive a stock Lightweight on Michelin Cups and try to brake as late as possible before the first left apex (kerbstone Eau rouge)... I say "brake" and not "stamp" as I try to knock off the speed just sufficiantly in order to turn up Radillon as fast as possible (keep the momentum in the car...it's so easy to brake too much there and the later you start braking, the easier you will brake too much)... I remain left on or over the kerbstone (except in the damp) and turn uphill Radillon where the kerbstone ends... this way you have a decent straight line up hill
I do it the same way in the GT3, though harder braking is required
I do it the same way in the GT3, though harder braking is required
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