Engine/gearbox disaster ??

[berty987]

I don't think it means all engines are going to fail , but what it does suggest is that there is a possibility it can hapen to you. There seems to be no information on how this occurs or any way to prevent it. Everyone has the possibility of being affected if you own a pre 2006 MY car. To date , it seems Porsche are offering a good will gesture of replacing engines with intermediate shaft failure , regardless of the age of the car , and if it is under warranty. How much longer Porsche will continue with this procedure is open to debate , but I'm certainly a little concerned having a car with 30k miles and pre 2006 MY. You dont expect to be taking into account a 1000 pound warranty for every year of ownership past the manufacturers already short 2 year period , to cover engine failure. I'm sure that if more porsches were used as daily drives the number of intermediate shaft failures would be greater. There are still a very large number of 986 / 996 models running around with less than 40 k miles on the clock.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

I'm curious, how can it suggest this? There is a world of difference between a seal leaking and an intermediate shaft failing.

What are you suggesting changed in 2006? Why that date? If you mean 987's then they came out in 2005, and 987's and 997's still have RMS leaks as well - not as many, but it has been reported.

In general, most cases cars used regularly will suffer less leaks and problems than thosed left alone for long periods. Do you know that Porsche charge 959 owners more if thier car covers LESS than a certain milage each year than those that cover more? This is because the more regular use keeps all the seals etc from drying out.

 

[jimso]

Mark, leaks are one thing. I agree with your comments entirely.

If my car developed a leak, it would not distress me greatly. Unless my boots were awash with oil every time I went to the garage. The mechanical failure is a distictly separate issue.

If Porsche have spec'd an inadequate or inferior bearing, thats not good to say the least. However, cars are out there either working or not as a consequence. Theres not much to be done until it fails. If it does.

As far as I can see, the best they can do is be generous to those that have the problem. Indeed, they appear to be rising to the occasion in a number of instances. Its an engineering weakness that should by now have been addressed. Let's hope that is indeed the case.

 

[Black80XSA]

ORIGINAL: jimso


How many Honda V-tech engines have destroyed themselves over the years? According to Mr Clarkson (driving an S2000 on TG a few weeks ago), not one recorded failure in umpteen million engines produced. Thats how it should be!

I think you'd find by logging on to numerous Honda forums that they too suffer engine issues and failures - possibly a lot less, and certianly lower cost to replcae and probably handled without complaint be the dealers.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: jimso

I hope not. I'm using the car at the weekend just as I'm using it today.

John, you have to admit it makes sad reading. I know that there is much woeful comment on the forum. As I noted in an earlier post, many folk come here to share problems and seek support. They don't often take the trouble to comment that another day has passed without something going wrong - why would they?

I love my car and hope to avoid the worst that can happen. Nevertheless, these are dire failures and they should not happen.

How many Honda V-tech engines have destroyed themselves over the years? According to Mr Clarkson (driving an S2000 on TG a few weeks ago), not one recorded failure in umpteen million engines produced. Thats how it should be!

I agree with your sentiment Jim, but without facts and so much hear-say, I find it hard to believe that any manufacturer has produced a bullet proof engine. The VW Beetle a enjoyed reputation for ruggedness and reliability almost unparalled. In truth, they rusted and fell apart much the same as any other car of its day.

 

[Guest]

Hello to all

I am the chap who started this thread and I am astonished (and very flattered) at the level of interest and comments it has generated. I think maybe now that it might be a good idea to put a lid on it.
It was my car and my unfortunate experience, but Porsche have looked after me very well and I have to respect them for that. After all the car was not under warranty.
I am a Licensed Aircraft Engineer by trade, I work and maintain Boeing 757, 767s and Airbus aircraft on a daily basis. I have done it all my working life, I think I am fairly well placed to proffer an Engineers view on this problem.
It was a mechanical failure of a rotating shaft at a point where it is highly loaded, the shaft is designed to take these loads, but for some reason it failed prematurely. These failures seem to have occurred in the most on 2003 cars.I do not have all the facts and figures, Porsche probably do, so I could be well wrong here but to me it suggests a batch of intermediate shafts with some type of metallurgical flaw. That is to say the shaft failed due to metal fatigue, I will never know but its my best guess. It may well only affect a certain number of engines, certainly not very many. I do not expect to get a detailed report back from Porsche.
Unfortunately the failure happened on my car, thats just tough. I am not the only one its happened to. but It does not mean that its going to happen to every other Boxster on the road. In hindsight I should have kept up the warranty on it, I will from now on, make no mistake.
The Boxster is a marvellous car, I could go on and on about its qualities but you as owners already know what its about so lets not knock it about any further

Enjoy driving your car, its a special experience, thats what you bought it for

 

[jimso]

ORIGINAL: Rob Higham
Enjoy driving your car, its a special experience, thats what you bought it for

Yep. I'll drink to that Rob. Hope you don't have to long to wait to get back on the road with the rest of us.

Jim

 

[JCB..]

Rob

It's great to see you maintain a rational, objective outlook despite the angst that this must have caused you.

Hopefully, your input as an engineer, and the fact that Porsche have looked after you, may help to quell some of the doubts raised by some during this debate.

JCB..

 

[bornagainporsche]

First post guys , so hi to all.( long time lurker ) but I can't help wondering Rob, if Porsche hadn't of paid for the repairs would you still be in the same frame of mind??
Great that they did. And it does give an air of confidence to us owners who havn'e taken up the extended warranties, not just on this issue but the fact that they may indeed care about us older genaration porsche owners.
Fingers crossed !!

 

[mikec]

ORIGINAL: JCB..

ORIGINAL: jimso

I hope not. I'm using the car at the weekend just as I'm using it today.

John, you have to admit it makes sad reading. I know that there is much woeful comment on the forum. As I noted in an earlier post, many folk come here to share problems and seek support. They don't often take the trouble to comment that another day has passed without something going wrong - why would they?

I love my car and hope to avoid the worst that can happen. Nevertheless, these are dire failures and they should not happen.

How many Honda V-tech engines have destroyed themselves over the years? According to Mr Clarkson (driving an S2000 on TG a few weeks ago), not one recorded failure in umpteen million engines produced. Thats how it should be!

I agree with your sentiment Jim, but without facts and so much hear-say, I find it hard to believe that any manufacturer has produced a bullet proof engine. The VW Beetle a enjoyed reputation for ruggedness and reliability almost unparalled. In truth, they rusted and fell apart much the same as any other car of its day.

I think you'll find Honda haven't had a warranty claim, which is a lot different from no failures. I had a Honda and it was brilliant. I work away a lot so the car sit's for 4-6 weeks with no use. The Honda would always start when I came home. I then had a TT which would need a jump start once the weather cooled a little. I did buy a battery conditioner after a new battery under warranty didn't cure it and Audi couldn't find anything outside the expected current drain. FYI the Porsche flattens the battery too. I'd have thought it wouldn't drain the battery as bad but it does. The Honda never faltered whereas the Audi was not great. I hope the Porsche improves on the Audi. If I had to go back to a sensible car I'd have no qualms with buying a Honda.

 

[GOOFY]

Solution to all Boxster owners outside warranty window:

What we need is a Porsche gearbox to Subaru engine conversion. They are both flat sixes - why not. When I had a VW Beetle (air cooled) I had considered this conversion - and a few actually did it. There were a few companies who specialised in these conversion "gearbox plates". Surely one of them could come up with this. Imagine that 300bhp turbo engine in a Boxster ! It could make economic sense - pick one up 2nd hand , implant in the Boxster - thrash it , take it out - put the Boxster engine back in and sell it ! Result !! No more RMS woes!

 

[GOOFY]

correction "flat sixes" should read boxer flat design

 

[David Hooper]

Yes, good objective forum thread, all of the comments interesting really, and I suppose yer pays yer money and yer take the risk.
The guy who bought mine had a 2.5 1997 done 120k miles. As far as he knew it had not had a problem all it's life.
And I've got a 2.7 01Y part ex coming next month, so fingers crossed[&:]

Cheers
Dave

 

[metric_thumbs]

ORIGINAL: JCB..
I agree with your sentiment Jim, but without facts and so much hear-say, I find it hard to believe that any manufacturer has produced a bullet proof engine. The VW Beetle a enjoyed reputation for ruggedness and reliability almost unparalled. In truth, they rusted and fell apart much the same as any other car of its day.

Different order of things - a 1955 Beetle will need it sills doing in about 1980 and a 1970 Beetle in about 1985.
Engines are always good for 150,000 if you follow the standard maintenace.

Easy to get 300,000 out of a box. My own is having almost three times as much power as the original engine produced pushed through it now - and 125,000 miles old. I do not expect any problems.

But whilst a poor choice for an example - what you imply is still correct.

 

[GOOFY]

Everyone thinks you are knocking Boxters/ 987's etc when you raise issues as this. I look at it differently - I am knocking Porsche for profiteering from lack of motivation in fixing this inherent design or manfacturing flaw. So when you're engine blows up and you gratefully accept 40%-50% -60% towards the costs (over £10k), when your car is less than 4 years old and less than 30k miles, just remember they have made close on £4M cash earnings whilst you looked so relieved that night. Porsche know you'll be back again for the next model, or take out extended warranties - because they have manipulated our expectation of them. Audi developed a mid engined car from scratch - and guess what - it beats the 987 from all the reviews. It will also probably be more reliable.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: GOOFY

Audi developed a mid engined car from scratch - and guess what - it beats the 987 from all the reviews. It will also probably be more reliable.

At over twice the price Audi's FHC mid engined R8 should well and truly thrash the Boxster. Having driven it for well over an hour / 60 miles first impressions were absolutely brilliant piece of kit but not for me [8D] No folding roof option: No luggage space:No great value for money with a few options you are into £80K+ easily: No brainer 11 years on and Porsche still make the finest value for money mid engined roadster false stop.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: metric_thumbs

ORIGINAL: JCB..
I agree with your sentiment Jim, but without facts and so much hear-say, I find it hard to believe that any manufacturer has produced a bullet proof engine. The VW Beetle a enjoyed reputation for ruggedness and reliability almost unparalled. In truth, they rusted and fell apart much the same as any other car of its day.

Different order of things - a 1955 Beetle will need it sills doing in about 1980 and a 1970 Beetle in about 1985.
Engines are always good for 150,000 if you follow the standard maintenace.

Easy to get 300,000 out of a box. My own is having almost three times as much power as the original engine produced pushed through it now - and 125,000 miles old. I do not expect any problems.

But whilst a poor choice for an example - what you imply is still correct.

Not a poor choice at all Mike

Number 3 cylinder's exhaust valve regularly used to drop off at around 60-70k miles due to the oil cooler restricting the air flow over the fins. At least they cured the problem with the "dog house" fan housing.

You have a 600 BHP Boxster or a 90 BHP Beetle? []

 

[GOOFY]

The Beetle rusted as most cars did because they hadn't latched onto full wax treatment and galvanised the shell as modern cars do. The no3 dropped valve - this occurred mainly on the later 1300's / & 1600's that had to run leaner mixtures due to emission controls required. Most dropped valves ocurred due to poor maintenance not poor design - air ducts, and fan belt or ignition too far advanced. Porsche also had emmission issues at the time with air cooled engines - hence the conversion to water cooled engines. See Top Gear yesterday for Clarkson's view on the Beetle's reliability across Africa.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: GOOFY

The Beetle rusted as most cars did because they hadn't latched onto full wax treatment and galvanised the shell as modern cars do. The no3 dropped valve - this occurred mainly on the later 1300's / & 1600's that had to run leaner mixtures due to emission controls required. Most dropped valves ocurred due to poor maintenance not poor design - air ducts, and fan belt or ignition too far advanced. Porsche also had emmission issues at the time with air cooled engines - hence the conversion to water cooled engines. See Top Gear yesterday for Clarkson's view on the Beetle's reliability across Africa.

Having driven and owned air cooled VW's for thirty odd years I don't think I need Mr. C's input on how reliable they are.

Dropped valves had bugger all to do with emission controls.

 

[insatiable]

I had an Int. Shaft failure at 27000kms on my 03,but fortunately had extended warranty so Mondial Insurance( who carry the warranty) picked up the tab including rental car for 3 weeks and the $1400 trucking cost to freight the vehicle to/from Sydney. I cannot speak highly enough of the way the whole exercise was handled. Although I was very disappointed with Porsche engineering/quality control. Incidentally they put in a late '04 new engine flown in from Germany. 10000 kms later all is well but guess who renewed the extended warranty!
Good luck with your replacement,unofficially I was told that Porsche would have paid for the engine in any case,also be sure to get in writing the 2 year warranty on the replacement.
Cheers,
Glenn