Engine Upgrade
- Thread starter cornishgrose
- Start date
The basics of mine; 4??bhp:![[FONT=verdana,geneva"]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/space.gif ". [FONT=verdana,geneva\"]")
3" decat exhaust £700TiAL 46mm WG + exhaust flanges welded on £700big turbo £700intercooler upgrade £300complete engine rebuild (parts) £1k+clutch £650balance & lighten £210thermal coating various parts £280TiAL "Monster" BOV £200standalone engine management £1,500electronic boost control £10072lb injectors £200bigger fuel pump £60labour to get it all working £2.5k+ That's not complete but it's already £9k+ plus a 250 Turbo engine to start with, then you need to make it stop and go round corners (say £4,500 + labour?) and there will be another figure well into 4 figures to properly put right things that are found to be wrong like fuel pipes, brake lines, rear beam mounts etc. I think Rick has it right.
3" decat exhaust £700TiAL 46mm WG + exhaust flanges welded on £700big turbo £700intercooler upgrade £300complete engine rebuild (parts) £1k+clutch £650balance & lighten £210thermal coating various parts £280TiAL "Monster" BOV £200standalone engine management £1,500electronic boost control £10072lb injectors £200bigger fuel pump £60labour to get it all working £2.5k+ That's not complete but it's already £9k+ plus a 250 Turbo engine to start with, then you need to make it stop and go round corners (say £4,500 + labour?) and there will be another figure well into 4 figures to properly put right things that are found to be wrong like fuel pipes, brake lines, rear beam mounts etc. I think Rick has it right. 
Diver944
Active member
.....and just for comparison here's my current estimate for my 3.0 litre project
big Turbo £800
new S2 block £1000
2.7 crank & head £1000 (still trying to source these)
8.5:1 pistons £1000
Carillo rods £1000
clutch £350
intercooler £300
72lbs injectors £250
assembly and installation with new water pump, belts, rollers etc £2000
Two days rolling road setup £1000
new white expansion tank £35 [
]
This doesn't include the TiAL wastegate and electronic boost controller I already have and it also doesn't have a provison for the intake. I need to decide on MAF or MAP and which one, my original AFM is leaking anyway.
Power goal should be in the mid 400s at a sensible boost level
Now where is that Chevy engine again
big Turbo £800
new S2 block £1000
2.7 crank & head £1000 (still trying to source these)
8.5:1 pistons £1000
Carillo rods £1000
clutch £350
intercooler £300
72lbs injectors £250
assembly and installation with new water pump, belts, rollers etc £2000
Two days rolling road setup £1000
new white expansion tank £35 [
]This doesn't include the TiAL wastegate and electronic boost controller I already have and it also doesn't have a provison for the intake. I need to decide on MAF or MAP and which one, my original AFM is leaking anyway.
Power goal should be in the mid 400s at a sensible boost level
Now where is that Chevy engine again
You have mail.
Anything is possible in theory. There is a thread titles something like "if you think the Panamera is horrible, look at this" which mentions a supercharger on a 2.5 lux purported to give 292bhp. Some of us are sceptical as to the figure and the longevity however. Cost is likely to be more than the car is worth by a factor of 2+ as well.
Other 2.5 tuning claims up to 190bhp (EMC built race spec engines), but they are considered not to be massively tunable.
As it happens I know of a 944 Turbo engine complete with loom, ECUs, clutch, intercooler, wastegate and everything else that was built by a specialist (Strasse) for the Porsche race series that's for sale, which would be as "drop in" as anything could be in a Lux. That should make 290-300bhp as sold.
Other 2.5 tuning claims up to 190bhp (EMC built race spec engines), but they are considered not to be massively tunable.
As it happens I know of a 944 Turbo engine complete with loom, ECUs, clutch, intercooler, wastegate and everything else that was built by a specialist (Strasse) for the Porsche race series that's for sale, which would be as "drop in" as anything could be in a Lux. That should make 290-300bhp as sold.
Mail sent.
In terms of bracing I don't believe you need any. I don't think the Turbo shell is strengthened compared with the oval dash Lux at least. There is at least one turbo engined lux on here or at least I believe the peppermint green specimen started out as a Lux. You might want something a bit better brakes-wise, however.
In terms of bracing I don't believe you need any. I don't think the Turbo shell is strengthened compared with the oval dash Lux at least. There is at least one turbo engined lux on here or at least I believe the peppermint green specimen started out as a Lux. You might want something a bit better brakes-wise, however.
morris944s2john
New member
The easiest and cheapest way to go from 165 BHP 2.5 Lux to 200+ BHP (in bursts anyway) would be nitrous oxide. IMHO!
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
The strengthening you might be thinking of is in the engine bay, we discussed this a little while back here (look at the end of the 2nd page and onwards). I am going to be fitting a lower chassis brace to mine when it's back, the front ends of these cars are quite flexible so anything you can do to stiffen them should be beneficial. A strut brace is a good first step. I wouldn't say this is related to upping the power as such, but if you're running wider or stickier tyres then it's really worth some investigation.
Forgetting the turbo route (unless its a standard unit with all the necessary bits) what can I do with the 2.5 engine and what power is possible from that ?
A S2 or a 968 unit, as a standard engine, will the fitting be straight forward ?
Who are really good 944 specialists who can do the work over a 24/48 hr period rather than fitting it around other jobs and three months later my car is sitting there without an engine ?
A S2 or a 968 unit, as a standard engine, will the fitting be straight forward ?
Who are really good 944 specialists who can do the work over a 24/48 hr period rather than fitting it around other jobs and three months later my car is sitting there without an engine ?
I think you're being a tad optimisitic if you think anyone even could fit the engine in a 48 hour period, during which they'd normally work 16 hours. I'd have thought a week would be good going. I'd also suggest that the turbo unit might be easier than the S2 one simply because it's 8 valve like the original engine. Peter can probably give you some ideal of the hours involved in fitting an S2 engine to his Lux. I suggested getting the work done by someone fitting it in around other work as not only would that be easier to book, but also it's normally considerably cheaper as the odd hour here and there gets forgotten about whereas if the car is the only project worked on then every second gets billed. Another aspect to consider is that if you show me an indie who can take an exclusive booking for the amount of hours we're talking here with anything less than a couple of months notice and I'll show you an indie who hasn't got a very good reputation.
I confess I'm a bit confised by your first comment as I was able to offer you a turbo unit standard apart from the wastegate (and the standard one is literally rubbish) and having been rebuilt with probable balancing and blueprinting (hardly a bad thing in most eyes I'd have thought when the other option is a 6 figure mileage and not having been opened for 20 years in all likelihood), and with everything you'd need apart from the power steering pump which you already have, and with the bonus of no air-con which you don't need to remove. Are you looking to get the transmission as well?.
You really should look at buying a complete donor car I think, there are rusty S2s and Turbos around that just need to be broken.
I confess I'm a bit confised by your first comment as I was able to offer you a turbo unit standard apart from the wastegate (and the standard one is literally rubbish) and having been rebuilt with probable balancing and blueprinting (hardly a bad thing in most eyes I'd have thought when the other option is a 6 figure mileage and not having been opened for 20 years in all likelihood), and with everything you'd need apart from the power steering pump which you already have, and with the bonus of no air-con which you don't need to remove. Are you looking to get the transmission as well?.
You really should look at buying a complete donor car I think, there are rusty S2s and Turbos around that just need to be broken.
ORIGINAL: Fen
It's currently in my car, but I want it out so there's more room for something American with a few more cylinders [
There must be a more suitable home just waiting for this engine surely.
Like a 968 maybe, [
][].
Tam Lin
New member
OK I've been through this process with an 924S (not dissimilar mechanically to a 944 lux) and a 944 S2 donor vehicle. Whilst on paper it would be just about possible to swap all the parts, say, in 5 working days, if you're serious about this, then you'd see this is not advisable, as you don't want to fit components which you will soon need to take out again. Thus, on the new-to-you engine, you'll want to fit new belts & water pump, and have the top off to check the chain and cam sprockets. You'll want to see the amount of life the clutch has left. Any of these components, if worn, will need to be ordered & replaced, thus blowing the chance of completing the swap on a tight schedule.
And nothing, ever, goes 100% right first time. It's a modified 944 variation on Murphy's law.
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
I agree with everyone here I'm afraid, it's just can't see it's possible to do it in a couple of days (the labour on mine was 44 hours, this included some preventative maintenance which would have been mad not to do whilst it was in pieces and in hindsight I should have had the head gasket and top end rebuilt too).
If you find someone thats done it, give them the S2 engine in advance so they can prep it then I think you should safely be able to get it turned around in a couple of weeks. Having a donor car is a really great idea and will substantialy speed things up, you need the exhaust and gearbox anyway so you may as well get an accident damaged one as it'll probably work out cheaper in the long run.
Dave at JZ did my swap and he did a wonderful job, Ollie at RPM has also done one, so these would be the people to talk to about timescales and costings (RPM have a much cheaper labour rate and I'm sure will do an exceptional job too).
JZ warned me off a turbo lump for the transplant as they felt it would be more complex and therefore time consuming, but since I'd already set my heart on a 3L engine (and the 968 ones were going for £2k+ at the time) I wasn't looking that seriously at them anyway. I can't really see that it would have involved much more labour to go with the Turbo engine, so at the end of the day I suppose it depends upon what you want from the car and how you're going to use it.
If you find someone thats done it, give them the S2 engine in advance so they can prep it then I think you should safely be able to get it turned around in a couple of weeks. Having a donor car is a really great idea and will substantialy speed things up, you need the exhaust and gearbox anyway so you may as well get an accident damaged one as it'll probably work out cheaper in the long run.
Dave at JZ did my swap and he did a wonderful job, Ollie at RPM has also done one, so these would be the people to talk to about timescales and costings (RPM have a much cheaper labour rate and I'm sure will do an exceptional job too).
JZ warned me off a turbo lump for the transplant as they felt it would be more complex and therefore time consuming, but since I'd already set my heart on a 3L engine (and the 968 ones were going for £2k+ at the time) I wasn't looking that seriously at them anyway. I can't really see that it would have involved much more labour to go with the Turbo engine, so at the end of the day I suppose it depends upon what you want from the car and how you're going to use it.
ORIGINAL: pauly
ORIGINAL: Fen
It's currently in my car, but I want it out so there's more room for something American with a few more cylinders [
There must be a more suitable home just waiting for this engine surely.
Like a 968 maybe, [
[
] To be honest I don't really mind where it ends up. Nor do I mind if the OP doesn't think it's right for him, but I'm confused by the logic for ruling it out as it sounds pretty close to his ideal to me.
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
