Gearbox rebuild or S/H?
- Thread starter dann944
- Start date
Copperman05
New member
Ok looks like the time has for a new clutch to be fitted to my S2 (@93,000miles), and, as the box whines considerably and I have been having issues with changing gear (it wouldnt go into 3rd from 4th) and now it wont change into any gear whilst in motion, I am thinking that it would be a good idea to either get the box rebuilt or put a s/h unit in at the same time as getting the clutch done.
What are peoples thoughts on this? What are costs of a rebuild? Are there different types? (full rebuild, or just bearings, syncros etc). The advantge of this over a s/h unit would be you know what you are getting, and should last another 100,000 or so? Someone had suggested an s/h LSD unit as they apparently dont whine as much or have too many problems...is this true?
Whatever I decide, looks like its going to be expensive.[&:]
Any help, as always, is appreciated.
Edd
Neil Haughey
New member
I would get under the car first and check that your problem is not shifter related. On mine I found I was lucky with how the car was sat and from the shifter on the top of the gearbox I could select pretty much every forward gear. I had a bit of an issue with 3rd and 4th when my shift mechanism was worn.
Copperman05
New member
By shifter do you mean the gear linkage that sits on top of the box? initially I thought this may have been the problem but I had a new short shift linkage fitted last year by RPM and the problem remains. Initially I thought it was a gearbox mechanism issue, as it only appeared to not go into 3rd gear when the car (wheels) are in motion, at a stand still I can select the gears, when moving I can not. My indie says it could also be the clutch and this would be the first thing to look at, I agree, but my fear is that I get the clutch done and miss out on the opportunity to sort out the box, after which the gearshift issue may remain. Edd
JamesO
New member
Sounds like the clutch centre spring/donut thing mine was exactly the same I could get all gears when stationary but gears very difficult to engage when moving, turned out to be the centre spring breaking up. But by all means check the easy bits first, I wouldn't order a new gearbox until your sure its not the clutch or gearlinkage as said above.
Copperman05
New member
Ok the fact that now I cant select any gear does point to the clutch, but would this also be the reason why I couldnt change down from 4th into 3rd? This issue I've been driving around until now, I got round it by putting the gearknob into 2nd (with the clutch still engaged) and then into 3rd. It seems strange to me that a worn clutch would cause this on just one part of the gear shifting (4th to 3rd), as wouldnt it just affect the whole lot, as it is doing now...? Edd
Neil Haughey
New member
Agreed. My gear change improved dramatically after fitting a new clutch. The linkage on top of the gearbox, funny you mention short shifters as the one I had started causing shift problems with 3rd and 4th then failed completely leaving the gear stick all floppy.
sawood12
New member
I'd be very surprised if your gearbox needs a rebuild at such low mileage. S2 gearboxes are strong gearboxes, as are all 944 gearboxes, so unless it has seen some abuse in its time it should have plenty of mileage left. I'd be inclined to do as others have suggested- wait and see what it's like once you've replaced the clutch. And if it is OK then you can spend the money you'd mentally earmarked for a rebuild on an LSD[
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JamesO
New member
I was quoted £100 plus parts to drop a transaxle change the input seal and put it back by Northway, so assuming your clutch is toast anyway then if you then have to replace/refurb the box later its not too bad. I think if the car is being worked on by a good indie the best thing to do is follow their advice. I suppose you could also drain the gearbox oil and look for bits of metal in the oil. I fitted a second hand box in mine and fortunately the gamble paid off. I paid £250 for an S2 box from a random breakers and its fine, I guess I was lucky.
barrysmith
PCGB Member
If you can select all gears , when the engine is off. It must be the clutch that's not disengaging the Torque / prop shaft. I would replace clutch, flush out the GB and replace with a good oil. should the box be duff which I don't think it will be, it not hard to remove and replace , you never know this correction may save you a lot of money.
Copperman05
New member
True, however it does whine quite a bit, and I'm not sure if the gearbox oil had ever been changed until last year when I got the car (its not listed in the service book). My indie just serviced it again and asked what oil had been put in it last year as it smelt a bit burnt. He put some 75W90 synthetic gear oil in and the clutch went on the way home today, bummer.. If not getting the gearbox done at the same time isnt going to be a big saver then perhaps it is best to just go for the clutch change and see what happens. Or perhaps my indie (was RPM but just used Porshworx as I moved to London) could take a look at the box whilst he's doing the clutch and let me know. I guess this is where having an indie you trust has its advantages as I'm not sure he wont just tell me I need a re-build anyway... Thanks for the help so far EddORIGINAL: sawood12 I'd be very surprised if your gearbox needs a rebuild at such low mileage. S2 gearboxes are strong gearboxes, as are all 944 gearboxes, so unless it has seen some abuse in its time it should have plenty of mileage left. I'd be inclined to do as others have suggested- wait and see what it's like once you've replaced the clutch. And if it is OK then you can spend the money you'd mentally earmarked for a rebuild on an LSD[
Copperman05
New member
I am leaning towards this.. I can select the gears when the engine is running, just not when the car is moving, gearbox is turning. When stationary, I can select any gear. Edd
sawood12
New member
Edd, all our gearboxes whine and rattle a bit and will happily do so for hundreds of thousands of miles. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are on their way out. I quite like the Austin Mini like transmission whine, it makes the car feel like something that is alive. Not sure what the burning oil smell signifies. I guess the transmission oil must get quite hot through use and oil does pong a bit when hot, so might not be indicative of anything in particular.
Neil Haughey
New member
Wait until you have been a race car, man the whining and rattling from the back end is shocking, but the truth is this is what these gearboxes are like. In a normal car its not too bad because of the sound deadening. Without any sound deadening the transmission noise is pretty much the loudest thing you hear even at motorway speeds.
For anyone reading this who is thinking 'Hmmm, my transmission is a bit noisy as well - I wonder if it is on the way out', don't ever try driving the car without the thick boot carpet in. The noise is truly scary! You really could be forgiven for thinking that someone had replaced the gearbox oil with a handful of gravel and it was about to drop off into the road ... Much as Neil says a race car sounds like, I expect ... Oli.
Copperman05
New member
I understand what you guys are saying, and if the issue was just about whine I would tend to agree. However there is also the issue with the box not changing from 4th to 3rd, when changing down it felt as though something was blocking the path of the mechanism, if I pushed it into 2nd I could then push it up into 3rd and drive around the issue. Look here [link=http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=415034&mpage=1&key=3rd%2Cgear]http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=415034&mpage=1&key=3rd%2Cgear[/link]񥔺 It doesnt appear to be a linkage or selector issue as it only happened when the wheels were in motion, when stationary I could select 3rd from 4th. I may be wrong but I cant see how the clutch could be the cause of this issue, being specific to just one gear (going into 3rd) when wouldnt a faulty clutch affect all gear changes equally. Add to this the suspision that the gearbox oil may never had been changed before my ownership, my indie telling me it smelt burnt after the oil had been in there less than a year, AND the gearbox whine, leads me to think the box maybe worth sorting out I'm not decided yet but my fear is if I dont sort it out then I will have a new clutch but still the old changng gear issue and a missed opportunity. Edd edited for link
Edd, Dragging clutches can give funny symptoms. In view of the prices to rebuild the gearbox, and the price to swap a gearbox for a new one, I'd be a-changin' the clutch and seeing how that affects things. If the shift issue is still there then spend the extra £100 or so to have a new gearbox installed. That way, you may only pay for the cost of the clutch change, and could spend an extra £100 on top of the cost of the new/refurbed gearbox. If, alternately, you fit a new/refurbed 'box at the same time as doing the clutch then you will definitely spend the cost of the clutch PLUS the cost of the 'box. Given that dragging clutches do funny things, and S2 gearboxes are tough old beasts ... well, it's your money and your choice. (Changing a gearbox on a 944 is a fiddly job but not that difficult. You'd be able to do it in a day, easily, with a friend to help. And quite possibly in half a day if you got cracking.) Oli.
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