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Gearbox rebuild or S/H?

Some good points Oli. Although I used to tinker with oily bits a few years ago I'm not really confident to take on a clutch change myself, I dont really have the tools nor the space either. Are you saying that getting the gearbox out on its own isnt going to be that expensive? As I had assumed that a majority of the cost of the clutch replacement was taken doing just that. If this isnt an issue then your right, I might as well just get the clutch sorted and see. Thanks for your thoughts on this.. Edd
 
Edd, JamesO said he was quoted £100 to remove and re-fit the gearbox by Northway. This sounds cheap for the amount of work, but Northway are a reasonable indy and prices won't be that different elsewhere (I'd have thought). Changing the clutch does involve removing the gearbox, but a bunch of other stuff as well. Getting the 'box out is not that hard (and I think it would be easier still if you just removed the crossmember it is attached to, avoiding mass faffing with getting bolts in place). To keep going to change the clutch involves getting the bellhousing off, and that is very fiddly (getting the top bolts out is a bar-steward of a job). Oli.
 
The 944 Gearbox is the easiest gearbox I have ever changed. That may well be because I don't have a ramp or transmission jack etc, so conventionally placed gearboxes become harder, but even so, It is really a doddle, so there shouldn't be too much expense involved in changing it later. Have you tried the old crash box techniques of heel and toe combined with double-de-clutching? does that allow you to get anything? which would suggest it is a gearbox syncro problem, otherwise, I would go with the other comments - do the clutch first, and try some Swepco. I had a gearbox die on an early 944 - that gradually lost gears entirely, but others functioned ok... the noises were bangs and rattles, not at all rythmic, and before each gear was lost, it went through a "sometimes it will, sometimes it won't" engagement stage. I wouldn't, how-ever, for one minute suggest that all failing gearboxes will sound like that - it depends what goes wrong obviously.
 
ORIGINAL: JamesO Sounds like the clutch centre spring/donut thing mine was exactly the same I could get all gears when stationary but gears very difficult to engage when moving, turned out to be the centre spring breaking up. But by all means check the easy bits first, I wouldn't order a new gearbox until your sure its not the clutch or gearlinkage as said above.
+1 on my first 944 2.5 NA the clutch failed spectactularly at speed on the motorway with a loud crash when reaching for 5th gear, I had to crash change the gears to get home. When the clutch was changed the rubber donut had split completely. New clutches only come as turbo type now (no rubber donut) so I guess Porsche must have realised that the clutch was a weak point on the NA. Has your car any paperwork for a replacement clutch? I think it would be false economy buying a secondhand box unless you knew its history, also pointless until you know if changing the clutch resolves the issue. Dave K.
 
Thanks for your comments guys, I have spoekn to Mario at Porshworx and he also thinks that the gear change issue could be clutch related, start with the basics first then look at the gearbox was his assumption. He told me that should the gearbox need removing and refitting for a rebuild the cost would be about 4 hours labour at £240 +vat, not amazingly expensive but not cheap either. He also told me that he could probably take a look at the gearbox once its dropped and see if there are any issues to report. This then I thnik is the route I will take, get a new clutch fitted and inspection of the gearbox for possible issues, may cost an extra hours labour or so but agreed that is much better than the cost of gearbox rebuild. Edd
 
My old S had had an S2 box fitted. I can't remember the exact figures but I remember being surprised at how little the bill from Northway was to fit it. Swepco seems popular to gb oil to use to help reduce whine.
 
Ok just spoke to Chris Turner (Indie in London) and he seems to think I have a clutch and gearbox issue, said that the clutch could affect selecting 1st or reverse but he'd never had a case where it affected 3rd gear, suggested a second hand gearbox with guarentee as a rebuild would cost about £2000, ouch.. Going to call him back at 4pm to discuss. Edd
 
Edd, What are you doing - calling every indie to ask what they think it is? Be interesting if you could list every indie called and their respective responses, on here. It would be useful to learn which ones are needing to 'encourage' the extra trade ... I stick by the comments on here; I'd replace the clutch and clean up the linkage and see what that brings. Oli.
 
ORIGINAL: zcacogp Edd, What are you doing - calling every indie to ask what they think it is? Oli.
Erm , yes. Well not every one, just the two closest to me. To be honest I dont think they would be getting much extra trade by suggesting a s/h unit as I would be buying it off a breaker and the fitting costs wouldnt be that much over the cost a replacing the clutch (if any). I'm more inclined to think the other way, if I pay for just the clutch and still have a gearbox issue then I still need to pay for s/h unit or rebuild plus fitting so its a win win for the indie in that respect. Anyway thanks for your ideas it is appreciated, and sorry to be a pain with all the questions and what if's.[&:] Edd
 
A lesson I leant the hard way: If you are going to pay some-one to take it to bits and put it back together, let them supply the parts. This way if the parts fail, it will be their responsibility to fix it. If you have supplied the parts, and they turn out to be faulty, you pay the labour all over again.
 
Edd, Don't be sorry - this is a forum, a place for asking questions about what-if's? and how-about's? If those questions concern 944's then this is the place for them. Carry on asking. I'd second Tref's comments about provenance of parts tho'. Buy them from the guy who fits them. And don't take any liability for what happens if they don't work when fitted; if the part is duff you want it changed by the person who supplied it, and if that involves re-fitting, you won't be footing that particular bill. ('Tis your car, money and everything else, all we can give is advice. And - very occasionally - we get it right! [:)]) Oli.
 
Yes this is the risk one takes it seems, unfortunately most indie's just dont seem to have a collection of s/h S2 gearbox's hanging about out back, not unless your very lucky I guess. And if its faulty the breakers should replace it, but I dont see many indie's being prepared to absorb the labour for re-fitting a faulty box. But what else can you do, not much, take the risk and see? Ho-hum, not like anyone said 944 ownership was cheap! Will be nice once its sorted though... Edd
 
The clutch change is a long job but not particularly more or less complicated than the clutch on any other car. The problem/difficulty is that the torque tube needs to be slid back to split the bell housing flange to allow you access to the clutch. After that a clutch is a clutch is a clutch. A decent and experienced Indy can do the whole job in 8 - 10Mh. Just to note that on the 968 they had the bright idea to fit an access panel to the bottom of the torque tube bell housing meaning you don't need to separate the torque tube to get access to the clutch. This slashes the labour time for a clutch replacement by almost half - so if you ever need to have your torque tube replaced, it might be a good idea to substitute with a 968 torque tube.
 
ORIGINAL: Copperman05 Ok just spoke to Chris Turner (Indie in London) and he seems to think I have a clutch and gearbox issue, said that the clutch could affect selecting 1st or reverse but he'd never had a case where it affected 3rd gear.
When my clutch was worn I had a lot of problems getting into 2nd and some problems with 3rd. The only really good shift was between 3rd and 4th. Swepco oil has a reputation for being very good on the synchros so this could help sort you out as mentioned previously.
 
Ok, I've made a decision regarding my gearbox. I'm going to get a second hand unit, I know this is against some of the advise given here but I'm convinced that this gear changing issue isn’t going to go away by just putting in a new clutch. For me its a good opportunity to sort this out and change a very whiny box at the same time. Please dont shoot me down! I've spoken to a very nice guy called Patrick at Porshembri in west London and he has quoted a price of £874 inc VAT for the clutch fitted and no extra charge to fit the s/h box. Seems reasonable to me, especially for London. We have discussed the issues with dealing with s/h units and I'm fully aware of the risks, hopefully there won’t be any problems. I have been given a few prices ranging from £250 for a box from a poster on the forum to £700 (initially, then they went down to £550+Vat&Del, still v expensive I think) from Porsche-Apart. The cheapest one at £250 is tempting but there is no guarantee and the owner has no experience of driving the vehicle it comes from, therefore the condition of the box is unknown (apart from that it came from a 96,000 mile vehicle). Douglas valley say they have a 75,000 mile box for about £550 delivered + 30 day G'tee and Prestige Salvage have one for £450 also delivered + G'tee. I'm willing to pay a little extra for a lower mileage box, even though I'm aware it’s no guarantee that there wont be any issues. Does anyone have any experience of dealing with these breakers, can I trust what they have to say around mileage, etc? The fact of the matter is that I won’t know what I've got until its in the car and its been test driven. If I can sort the wheat from the chaff now, I may make the chance of getting a dud box less likely. Edd
 
The one item that I bought from Douglas Valley was totally misdescribed. They were very unhelpful with my complaint and wanted me to pay the carriage to return it. I will never use them again. I've never had a problem with anything from Porsch Apart
 
ORIGINAL: Copperman05 Someone had suggested an s/h LSD unit as they apparently dont whine as much or have too many problems...is this true?
You've probably made your decision on how to go about doing what you need to do to get the car working properly which as i can imagine is your main priority. However i intend to do the same as you are doing to yours, gearbox repairs and clutch, in the next few years and i will definitely be changing the diff for a Quaife unit. I put a torque biasing diff in my Mk1 Golf GTI and it completely transformed the way it came out of corners, foot flat to the floor in other words. I know a porsche is driven from the other end and won't suffer understeer as a result of gassing it, but the difference a good diff makes is truly astounding.
 
Indicated mileages on used parts for sale may have to be taken with a grain of salt. It seems 90% of used parts available come from sub-100k miles cars, especially mechanical parts such as engines and gearboxes.
 

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