Have taken the 924s plunge!

[C2dweller]

When I spoke with the PK he also mentioned something quite unusual which might help diagnose the water loss. If he were going up a hill the temp gauge would move right (hotter). If he went down a hill it would move left (colder). Sounded very unusual to me...!

 

[C2dweller]

After getting a little down hearted with the build quality of modern cars I decided to turn my attention to a 924s as the daily commuter...

I've been to look at an OK example with excellent history (91k mostly by one owner) - can I ask for some advice as to some of the problems I know about? (I've guessed at what I think this is going to cost to put right and put it in brackets - am I correct?)

After seeing the car I spoke with the previous keeper, so I know everything there is to know now!

> High water consumption - current keeper has replaced a hose but I'm unsure problem is fixed <HIGH>
> Along the sills there is a bit of rust along the seam and one patch of nasty stuff near the rear of the drivers side <HIGH>
> Heater is permanently on hot <HARD / £££>
> Exhaust rattles a little and has been welded <MED> query engine mounts?
> Recently car has had moisture inside <MED>
> Rear screen partially works <MED - but will probably not fix
> Brake pipes appeared on advisory <LOW /MED>
> OE radio is bust <LOW>
> Passenger window doesn't go up from drivers side <LOW / EASY FIX?>
> Front struts were an advisory <MED>

> Doesn't have great road holding - but this is comparing against my other P-car... hope this doesn't cause an argument []

The first one is the biggy and I don't want to buy something with a failing head gasket - is this common? When I asked about jobs done by current keeper - he pointed out a new hose he had fitted on the front part of the engine. I only put 2 and 2 together when I spoke with the previous keeper (PK) later on. PK did say that there isn't any oil contamination to speak of.

The second doesn't seem too bad to me. Inside the arches it all looks amazingly clean.

I won't list the good stuff, but there is a lot and thats why I made an offer.

The guy is thinking it over (which seems v.high when all these faults are considered!) - but I do like the cars orginality.

Any help gratefully received. Thanks, Lee

 

[CarreraRSR]

Here's my 2 penneth, but you don't say what your looking at 2.0 or 2.5 &gt; High water consumption - current keeper has replaced a hose but I'm unsure problem is fixed &lt;HIGH&gt; CHECK ALL HOSES FOR LEAKS AND CONTAMINATION IN OIL/WATER. FULL CHECK OF THE WATER SYSTEM, RADIATOR, THERMOSTAT ETC. ANY PREVIOUS RECEIPTS ON PO SPEND IN THIS AREA? YOU WILL NEED TO DO THE BELTS AND BEST TO DO THE WATER PUMP ANYWAY SO A FEW MORE HOURS WORK TO HAVE THE HEAD OFF FOR A HEAD GASKET MAY BE NECESSARY. &gt; Along the sills there is a bit of rust along the seam and one patch of nasty stuff near the rear of the drivers side &lt;HIGH&gt; POP A CAMERA INTO THE VENT IN THE DOOR JAMB AND TAKE A PIC IN SIDE THE SILLS. YOU CAN SEE EXACTLY WHATS GOING ON INSIDE. LATER CARS SEEM MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO RUST THAN EARLY CARS. IF JUST SURFACE RUST ON THE OUTSIDE THEN AN EASY REPAIR IF CAUGHT EARLY &gt; Heater is permanently on hot &lt;HARD / £££&gt; PROBABLY THE HEATER CONTROL VALVE AT THE BACK OF THE ENGINE OR THE CABLE TO IT HAS LOOSENED &gt; Exhaust rattles a little and has been welded &lt;MED&gt; query engine mounts? EXHAUST HAS VERY LITTLE CLEARANCE AND CAN EASILY RATTLE IF NOT ADJUSTED CORRECTLY &gt; Recently car has had moisture inside &lt;MED&gt; YOU DON'T SAY WHERE? SUNROOF SEAL PERISHED? SUNROOF DRAIN TUBES COULD BE BLOCKED? PUSH DOWN A CABLE INTO THE TUBES TO CLEAR, ONE IN EACH CORNER. REAR HATCH SEAL CRUSHED/OLD. &gt; Rear screen partially works &lt;MED - but will probably not fix - USED HATCH REPLACEMENT? &gt; Brake pipes appeared on advisory &lt;LOW /MED&gt; NEED TO KNOW WHERE. YOU MAY NEED TO REPLACE FLUIDS ANYWAY SO NEW STAINLESS BRAIDED ON TO THE CALIPERS IS A GOOD CHOICE &gt; OE radio is bust &lt;LOW&gt; USED UNIT OFF EBAY &gt; Passenger window doesn't go up from drivers side &lt;LOW / EASY FIX?&gt; LIKELY TO BE DIRTY SWITCH CONTACTS. PULL APART AND CLEAN &gt; Front struts were an advisory &lt;MED&gt; I WOULD LOOK AT REPLACING ALL SHOCKS ANYWAY You don't say too much on previous owners spend on maintenance. A look back through receipts will give a clue on when or likely if any major parts were or need replacing. Plenty of cars are being broken so used parts are no issue. Although on many parts the cost on ebay etc. versus new prices does make used a false economy. There's also plenty of buyers guides around on here, TIPEC and Porsche924.co.uk. Surprisingly these cars seem to develop more issues from standing around not being used than getting used on a daily basis. Once fully fettled it should give good service.

 

[C2dweller]

Thanks for your reply - heres's the missing info: &gt; Its a 924S, D plate (1987 from memory) &gt; Rollers / belts were done in 09, only a couple of K ago, so it would be a shame to do them again if not the cause &gt; The sills are generally good - with no repainting at all! I saw them in their true light. A tiny bit of lifting along the seam and a nasty patch at the back. &gt; Moisture - from previous keeper - as its garaged there was no evidence. But in winter dials would fog and condense would form on front rear screens ... related to heater issue? &gt; Maintenace - excellent for type of car. Porsche early on, then specialist and more recently a local garage. I think the little faults just built upover time. I've offered £1400 GBP - which seems a lot in light of issues, but I wasn't aware of most of them until I spoke with previous keeper. We had a 90 min phone call where he discussed 22 years worth of ownership! There isn't anything I don't know. The plus points are GRAND PRIX WHITE [], 22 years of regular servicing, original paint / transfers, smooth engine / gearbox, untouched interior, recently refurbed wheels / new tyres, rollers / belts changes a couple of k miles ago, undersealed from new. I'm tempted to go ahead on the condition that I get to drive it for some time to see if it uses coolant - this is what the previous keeper recommended. If the new hose has cured things then I shouldn't see any problems. Previous keeper said there is no contamination in the oil, but I'll check this. That then leaves a possible link between the water loss, the heater and cabin fogging. Does anyone know how I can rule this out? Thanks

 

[RSGulp]

'Cabin fogging' combined with coolant loss and wet carpets (depending where in the car) could point to a leaking heater matrix?

 

[pixie*porsche]

I agree with Carrera - as for cars that sit about having more problems - true for pretty much any classic in my experience. Replace all hoses - as once one is replaced the next often goes. Check thermostat working and also replace the coolant filler cap. Moisture could be coming from the rear tailgate seal. The main concern I'd have is the bodywork of the car. If it has sill issues - what are you going to do when it won't go through an MOT on corrosion?

 

[C2dweller]

I think the sills in their untouched state are good - the rest of the body work is also very good to be honest. It has a few parking dents and a scratch, but all adding to the patina. The cut-off is the uncertainty about the cylinder head. If the car is losing water after a good drive I will probably avoid it. The only risk is that this is related to the broken heater. I'm probably going to go in favour, pending the above, mainly as I can't imagine finding another 924 in this kind of original condition and with this history.

 

[C2dweller]

An added problem is the lack of road tax This kind of rules out a long drive to check the usage of water. Car is currently SORN & not insured.

 

[CarreraRSR]

I have suffered condensation in my dials for some weeks after its Winter lay up. Its only just stopped in the last week or so with this continued warm and dry weather. The heat coming off the heater from the rear is only going to make it worse with the cooler front glass/plastic covers.

 

[vitesse]

I paid £950 for my E-bay 924S last Sept-1987 85k miles new tyres all round,brakes carpets,re-upholstered front seats,cone air filter,new door & sunroof seals-guards red with sickies on it all round(now removed)-no rust anywhere-I think £1400 too dear for what you quote.I have problem with misting up caused I think by the new sunroof seal not letting the roof fully sit in the recess & letting water into the nearside rear footwell-I am hoping to resolve the few niggles over the next few months,once the new lowering springs(front) & rear suspension eccentrics are sorted. Shouldn't use water-could be that it hasn't been properly refilled with all the air bubbles cleared when the new hose was fitted or points to head gasket.

 

[C2dweller]

Hi Vitesse - I was at curborough last year so I witnessed first hand your 911-killer (well it went round quicker than mine []) As I mentioned, I know I'm paying a lot for the orginality but it is a lovely original car. Its just a shame I know all the faults before I hand over the money. Here's a link to the advert - although its now expired ... [link=http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2667196.htm]924S[/link] The present owner said he replaced the hose after finding a split - this could explain the water loss the previous kepper spoke of. He has also offered to run some die in the coolant system which changes colour if it comes in contact with combustion gasses - i.e. blown gasket. I'm toying with doing a compression test as an alternative. I still think its a really cool car for not a lot of money

 

[RSGulp]

Lee, any MOT equipped garage can conduct a 'sniff test' with an exhaust gas analyzer to see whether the coolant contains combustion gases which would confirm a bad head gasket. Why do you think the car has moisture inside? Damp carpets? Where?

 

[Mike_Pollock]

I'll add my 10pence worth if may! Looks a lot for it - add says belts were done 2007 so they are due too Temp reading sound like not bled properly - they are a pain! I appreciate the originality but cracked dash, damage to seat plus all the other bits listed = £1k absolute tops for me Would be a good project as a toy not as a daily drive in my view.

 

[C2dweller]

ORIGINAL: RSGulp Lee, any MOT equipped garage can conduct a 'sniff test' with an exhaust gas analyzer to see whether the coolant contains combustion gases which would confirm a bad head gasket. Why do you think the car has moisture inside? Damp carpets? Where?

Hi Gulp - cheers for MOT heads-up. Previous keeper mentioned the fogged dials during winter of 2009. Also mentioned unusual amount of condense on the front / rear windows. As the car has been garaged for past 6 months, all seemed fine to me. Hi A9XXC - I thought the belts were 5 years. Oh dear. Seat wear is very minor - in fact the seats look new, bolster aside. Cracked dash is also minor. Cheers for comments.

 

[vitesse]

Lee, I should have remembered-probably my age-didn't mean to dampen your enthusiasm as they are great cars-we've had the other 924S since 1991 with no problems at all & have to admit that viewing the pics in the ad makes more sense than having just read your post.

 

[C2dweller]

I've now found the test the present owner is offering to do (a combustion leak test) - never heard of it before. A description is [link=http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14264/css/14264_227.htm]here[/link]

 

[vincematthews]

Agree with A9XXC - too much money in the current climate. I always budget an extra £500 on top of the purchase price when buying - do you really want it for £1900? The current owner hasn't had it long at all - why did he buy it and why selling now. For a daily driver - your intention - I would go for a car that drives well and is in very good mechanical condition - the bodywork can be tatty as long as it is solid. You must drive it a reasonable distance on a variety of road surfaces - essential . . . .far enough so everything warms up and settles down.

 

[C2dweller]

It drove beautifully, with good oil pressure. I'm a big believer in fate... my wife came back from a shopping trip this morning with a Haynes 924 manual. One of the kids had spotted it. (she paid over the odds for that too [])

 

[loc944]

Hi Lee, a lot of advice and valid points already made, but, it's your money and if you're happy with it and with the knowledge there is something needing attention then that may be better than not knowing and finding out the hard way. Also you're not new to Porsche ownership so you'll be aware of where to go and potential costs. Good luck, Alan.

 

[vitesse]

Lee, Unfortunately,the Haynes 924 manual covers the old model-you need the 944 version-I have both.