Hi - newb 944T owner

JagdHamster · Sep 21, 2013

Hi to the forum!

My recent purchase: an 89 944 Turbo SE (M030 but no LSD) in Guards red. 78,000 miles and extensive (mainly ProMax) history.
A few mods: Cup II 17s, steering wheel, front splitter, Apexi Boost controller and some sort of Evo Dump valve. Nothing too offensive, I hope.

I've machine polished the paint, "Forever Black"ed the trim and scrubbed/Gliptoned the interior; hope you think it was worth it! I highly rate Collinite waxes, but the new ArmorAll "Shield" product is top of my list of paint protectors right now; highly recommended.

I'm down in Devon and she's currently with Oak Tree of Newton Pop. for some big bills as anticipated by the PPI: Rear calliper rebuild,discs and pads. Fuel and brake lines. Front oil seals. Gear lever. Body is straight and solid, though and hopefully once Crispin's worked his magic she'll be good as gold. Tyres and tax as well, so it's been an expensive month, but you can't take it with you, right?

The biggest thing left to do is sort out the extremely stiff M030 suspension. The front dampers are on full soft, so I suspect the rears are the same, but am I correct in thinking the valving goes with time? The rear end really thumps over any bump; even cats-eyes are painful! Any suggestions on how to "de-Audi" the dampers would be most appreciated. I'm too old for bone-shaking rides now, but I do like to drive quickly; really quickly if possible. I put a Bilstein B12 kit on my previous RS4 and the compliance/control balance was heavenly (especially compared to the OEM Audi stair-rods), so that would be my aiming point for the 944.

One other thing: she was running 1.2 bar of boost (on standard head gaskets) and about 290 BHP; it was surprisingly quick! The PPI guys suggested (and set) a maximum of 1.0 bar, though, for longevity; is this overly conservative? I did enjoy the 290!! Car will only be driven about once a week maximum, as I have a 320d for commuting.

I first looked at a 944Turbo in about 1990/1991, so this is an itch that's needed scratching for a looooooong time! Very happy so far; I've had many high-performance cars in the past (996 Turbo, Audi RS2 and RS4 V6, M5 V8, S8 V10, Golf VR6. and others) and enjoyed them very much; but with the roads increasingly congested and camera-laden, the chances to fully enjoy them are increasingly rare. The aim was to get a classic, which would hopefully be enjoyable at all/lesser speeds, without going all beardy and spending most of the time on the hard shoulder. So far, the 944's hit the sweet spot of feeling engaging, involving and quick enough, without too much time spend spannering!

Anyway, hi to all; look forward to sharing/learning with you all.
Russ

simkin911 · Sep 21, 2013

Welcome! Enjoy your car.

I recognise it from Ebay within the last year. Was given an honest description by Andy @ Promax but still seemed like a very good buy.

Have fun!

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bmnelsc · Sep 22, 2013

Congratulations! Looks like you've picked a good one! I'm struggling with suspension choices at the moment also (although mine is only an S2 and no M030). Need to replace the original stuff but still want decent comfort. So I'll be watching this thread to see what you come up with

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

ORIGINAL: simkin911

Welcome! Enjoy your car.

I recognise it from Ebay within the last year. Was given an honest description by Andy @ Promax but still seemed like a very good buy.

Have fun!

[]

I bought it off the chap who must have bought it from Andy. That's very useful information, though. I might just drop Andy a line, to hear more about the car.

Thanks for the info; that's mighty quick good gen! [

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Russ

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

ORIGINAL: bmnelsc

Congratulations! Looks like you've picked a good one! I'm struggling with suspension choices at the moment also (although mine is only an S2 and no M030). Need to replace the original stuff but still want decent comfort. So I'll be watching this thread to see what you come up with

Thanks Bruce,
I have searched Rennlist a lot about this topic. They are big fans of putting Bilstein or Koni damper inserts into the bodies of the OEM suspension.

For some ideas (I assumed a later 944) of what's available, see:
http://www.paragon-products.com/Porsche-924-944-968-Suspension-s/257.htm?searching=Y&sort=7&cat=257&show=25&page=2

OEM dampers seem pretty reasonable and must be the simplest way of sorting things.

There's also some good articles here: https://www.paragon-products.com/kb_results.asp?cat=3
Perhaps this might be of use: https://www.paragon-products.com/kb_results.asp?ID=50

Cheers,
Russ

Ewan · Sep 22, 2013

I've had new Koni dampers fitted inside my original Koni adjustable MO30 shocks and it gave a noticeable and immediate improvement (given that the originals were 22 years and 90,000 miles old). Way cheaper than than the other option I considered (KWv3) and certainly good enough for general road use on a 300 bhp turbo.

edh · Sep 22, 2013

Looks very nice although an odd spec. An 89 turbo (250) would surely have an lsd?

Check out the options sticker in the front of the service book or on the rear boot panel behind the carpet. That will tell you exactly what you have. 220 is the lsd code.

As for dampers. If the rears are m030 they should be adjustable only when removed from the car. The back end should definitely not be crashy and hard. I drove an m030 car a couple of weeks ago and it was very smooth.

You can get front m030 struts rebuilt by a koni service agent - are the guys in Brackley (sportsline? ) still in business? New rears won't be expensive.

One last thing - Have you checked the inside of the sills?

Hairyarse · Sep 22, 2013

Welcome Russ, nice buy - it looks a good one. Hope you enjoy it once it's all sorted [

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944 man · Sep 22, 2013

As Ed has suggested, the brakes and LSD were part of the 250bhp car spec. M030 was a relatively cheap option and added different dampers, top mounts, bushes and ARBs (with some detail changes to other stuff too to accomodate it).

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

ORIGINAL: edh

Looks very nice although an odd spec. An 89 turbo (250) would surely have an lsd?

Check out the options sticker in the front of the service book or on the rear boot panel behind the carpet. That will tell you exactly what you have. 220 is the lsd code.

As for dampers. If the rears are m030 they should be adjustable only when removed from the car. The back end should definitely not be crashy and hard. I drove an m030 car a couple of weeks ago and it was very smooth.

You can get front m030 struts rebuilt by a koni service agent - are the guys in Brackley (sportsline? ) still in business? New rears won't be expensive.

One last thing - Have you checked the inside of the sills?

Great info thanks Ed. Smooth is what I want; I think the valves must be shot on the M030s.

The car was PPI'd by Autofarm and I've had two other mechanics look at it on a ramp; should that do for the sills?

Russ

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

ORIGINAL: 944 man

As Ed has suggest, the brakes and LSD were part of the 250bhp car spec. M030 was a relatively cheap option and added different dampers, top mount, bushes and ARBs (with some detail changes to toher stuff too to accomodate it).

Thanks Simon,
I will look at the options sticker when I can next; do LSDs fail?
Russ

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

ORIGINAL: Ewan

I've had new Koni dampers fitted inside my original Koni adjustable MO30 shocks and it gave a noticeable and immediate improvement (given that the originals were 22 years and 90,000 miles old). Way cheaper than than the other option I considered (KWv3) and certainly good enough for general road use on a 300 bhp turbo.

Thanks Ewan,
Sounds like the thing to do if M030 rebuild is too expensive.
Cheers,
Russ

simkin911 · Sep 22, 2013

My impression from the previous advert for that car was that the LSD had been removed for use elsewhere.

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

Thanks about the LSD; I think that might be the case. Ah well; I'm not really into "dabs of oppo" anyway.

Russ

ChasR · Sep 22, 2013

When I first started looking at 944s yours was the spec that I wanted down to the tee (Cup IIs, M030s, Guards Red etc.). Yours looks to be lovely

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Regarding boost, I cannot comment although my car does over 280BHP on 1 Bar for comparative purposes

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Paul 290T · Sep 22, 2013

Hi Russ,

If your car was holding 1.2 bar near the red line i reckon you'll have well over 290bhp at the wheels. In fact you 290bhp sounds more like the flywheel figure at that boost pressure, meaning you'd have about 340bhp at the wheels (typical RWD cars have a 15% transmission loss). Check what boost pressure you have around 5800rpm, I think that's where you're car will develop maximum power.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the 944T compares to the extensive list of very interesting cars you've owned. Drop us a line when you've gotten settled in with your new car.

simkin911 · Sep 22, 2013

I am sorry for continuing to refer to the advert when it was sold originally about a year ago but I am quite sure it has the Promax Stage 2 kit - should be good for 290-310 at the flywheel? It's a great kit (IMO).

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

Hey no problem; I kind of wish I had that advert now

So would it be okay then to turn the boost back up to 1.2 bar with that kit fitted; is it reliable?

I must say that if it did have 290 BHP at the wheels, no wonder she motors!

Cheers,
Russ

Diver944 · Sep 22, 2013

Congrats on the purchase Russ, you have a really nice car there.

I looked long and hard at buying it from Andy last year and I even had it on extended six week loan whilst mine was having some annoying electrics looked at. Alas my piggybank was very empty at the time and I couldn't run to having two 944's again. I was secretly hoping it was still unsold when my car goes in for its next yearly service in March

The inside of the sills were immaculate at the time and the exterior was solid and never been tampered with so you should have a good one there. There was a minor blemish on the offside rear wheel arch but maybe the guy who bought it from Andy had that attended to.

It had the smaller K26/6 turbocharger fitted before Andy bought it over 10 years ago so will not run to those higher power levels even when turned up to 1.2bar as the turbo is too small. The upside is it has much less lag than the bigger K26/8 turbocharger. Andy said the LSD box had been removed some years ago but to be honest it really makes not a jot of difference for even enthusiastic road driving. If my memory serves me well I am sure it had a recent head gasket, but don't quote me on that.

Here is a dyno chart for it at our 2006 Dyno Day when it was running 1 bar of boost with a manual boost controller and not the Apexi box of tricks it has now

JagdHamster · Sep 22, 2013

Thanks Paul;
Amazing love for/knowledge of the car here (by all of you); top marks indeed! Really good to hear that it seems to have a great provenance and is a well-known car. Actually not at all displeased at it having the smaller turbo; lag is a pain (but nothing could be as bad/masochistic fun as the old RS2) really. This information (plus the head gasket) means I can get the boost turned back up

I will definitely contact Andy this coming week as well; seems there could be more surprises yet. It makes me even more keen to keep the car and look after it than I was before!

But overall thanks for the replies chaps; really impressive!

Russ