Just a few bit's 'n' pieces of the latest build.
- Thread starter 333pg333
- Start date
Thanks Ben.. Well the first rebuild way back in April, the engine lasted 3.5 days and it was on my birthday that I decided to take it for a long Sunday drive out to the countryside. Well about an hour out of Sydney I noticed some smoke in my mirrors but thought it must have been from the truck that I'd just passed. Pulled up at the next set of lights and I was engulfed in my own engine smoke. Shut it down, waited 1.5 hours by the side of the road to be towed back the 50 miles to the workshop. Top day that
turned out to be....NOT! Anyway we're just waiting on the modified sump and the harness to get here to then put the motor in and dyno tune it. Another couple of weeks still, but I can almost taste the excitement building. Just to have the car back again will be almost strange.
Tell me, is your car running as a 3.2L now? Then there's Mike's as well and Lil just about to come back to life. So that's 3 x 3.2L in the UK now? I'm sorry if I missed any threads/posts on your build. Are they still in here somewhere as I'd be interested to read about it? Are the 3 cars basically the same? It's amazing to think that only a few years ago having a 2.7L or 2.8L was a rarity and now the 3.0L is semi-common around the world. With a bevy of 3.2's + some guy in the Carribean with a 3.4L and there's talk of even larger motors being built, it never ceases to amaze me that people are still pouring money into these long forgotten Porsches. Good thing too!
Hilux
New member
That would be my main worry too.
Big reds or yellows, Quaife diff and bigger tyres on the rear necessary with all that power IMHO
A mates got a 1000bhp plus Cobra on 245 tyres (cant get anything bigger under the arches), drives it at 1/4 throttle as it spins the wheels whenever it wants to, 60-100 in under 3 secs etc etc and I`ll never ever get in it again. I had to ceremonially burn my underpants in the garden as no-one else would touch them after I got out of the car [&:]
sawood12
New member
Traction would be my main concern as well given that I sometimes struggle to lay down my power with my lowly hairdryer of an engine. Given the amount of torque these engines are capable of in comparison to modern sportscars that have similar levels they all have either 4wd or some form of traction control.
I'm sure I remember Rick Cannell saying he was thinking about getting traction control set up with his car. I wonder if he ever got anywhere with that?
I'm sure I remember Rick Cannell saying he was thinking about getting traction control set up with his car. I wonder if he ever got anywhere with that?
Diver944
Active member
Funnily enough both of you who have mentioned traction have both got the KW system fitted. I remember that Patrick once stated one of the benefits he first noticed with KW was a major improvement in traction. When I first got my car back in a cold Dec 06 with 255 Continentals on it I could lose traction virtually anywhere in any gear [
]
In the summer last year now fitted with 275 Kumho V700 soft tyres I could mash the pedal (on a straight) and have no problems whatsoever. Anyway, feathering the throttle is fun []
]In the summer last year now fitted with 275 Kumho V700 soft tyres I could mash the pedal (on a straight) and have no problems whatsoever. Anyway, feathering the throttle is fun [
]Well traction will be an issue, however it is one part in the chain. That is to say obviously with power/tq levels going up markedly over and above the stock levels, the drivetrain is under threat. With this build I'm leaving my tyres as is which you can see are about as big as you can fit without modifying the bodywork. I could possibly squeeze 295's in the rears however I don't think we should have such a big imbalance between front and rears which only increases understeer. At the end of the year I am looking at some more changes which could mean going up in wheel size to 11's and 12's, but that will also be accompanied by other improved driveline components.
I certainly did enjoy the new levels of grip following the installation of the KW's and I thought that was one of the most common comments passed by everyone else who has done the same. I would think 255 Conti's in a cold UK winter aren't going to be helped by any setup though.[]
I certainly did enjoy the new levels of grip following the installation of the KW's and I thought that was one of the most common comments passed by everyone else who has done the same. I would think 255 Conti's in a cold UK winter aren't going to be helped by any setup though.[
]
sawood12
New member
The biggest area KW's have improved grip for me is in controlling the unloaded inside wheel- I can get on the power so much earlier now with confidence that the inside wheel isn't going to let go, however even the KW's havn't totally irradicated loss of grip. Though I know the Conti's i've curretly got fitted are not noted for their prolific grip levels.
The biggest area I struggle with is coming off a roundabout on a dual carrigeway. There usually always seems to be a sharp hump as you turn off the roundabout and onto the exit. As the weight of the car is unloaded off the suspension as you go over the hump that is when the wheels start to spin. I either need to wait a few seconds before getting on the throttle or momentarily take my foot of the throttle to stem the spin. It is in these situations were i'd imagine if I had an LSD then oversteer would be induced - having said that it sounds like a Torsen diff wouldn't help in those situations as well as I believe they need both wheels to have grip to work properly or they just work like an open diff.
I think the best solution seems to be acreage of rubber.
The biggest area I struggle with is coming off a roundabout on a dual carrigeway. There usually always seems to be a sharp hump as you turn off the roundabout and onto the exit. As the weight of the car is unloaded off the suspension as you go over the hump that is when the wheels start to spin. I either need to wait a few seconds before getting on the throttle or momentarily take my foot of the throttle to stem the spin. It is in these situations were i'd imagine if I had an LSD then oversteer would be induced - having said that it sounds like a Torsen diff wouldn't help in those situations as well as I believe they need both wheels to have grip to work properly or they just work like an open diff.
I think the best solution seems to be acreage of rubber.
Ah, no LSD? Well that's the first problem Scott. No LSD mean No Grip in reality. Get those pennies together and lash out on one. For most people the Torsen ones would be fine, but if you're going to the track often enough then go for a proper clutch type. I have an 80% one and it's absolutely fine in day to day driving and PLENTY of grip when needed. I never think of grip issues, ever. Certainly having bigger sticky rubber helps too. Not sure if you've driven on R-spec rubber but it is on a totally different level from street rubber.
Just a quick update. Picked up the car yesterday evening. Covered off 300kms in 24 hours at low boost / rpms. Everything going to plan. We didn't have all the components together in time to put in the LINK standalone and the GT35 so it's gone back in with the previous incarnation of the Vitesse stage V kit. No smoke or leaks. Car feels great. You can just tell it wants to get into it with the head / cam combo pulling at the bit. The Apexi ebc is switched off and so we're just running on the wastegate spring for now. Must be a 1 bar spring as I inadvertantly hit 0.98 bar last night without realising that it would go so high! There are not too many other subjects that garner such variance of answers as how to run in an engine and I'm yet to be convinced either way, however our builders have assured us that the quality of the components and the tolerances used allow you to basically drive it like you stole it after approx 300 miles. Something about the modern liners, pistons, rings that don't need such long bedding in procedures. Anyway it has lots of torque and a real meaty sound. I shall document it at some stage and post it on YouTube or the like.
Also I have used a 6 puk clutch disk and if you haven't tried one of these before you are in for a bit of a shock. Initially a light switch seems to have more compliancy! However even only driving it over 24 hours I'm getting used to it and actually like it. Most people would say that it destroys the 'streetability' of the car but it's 99% time only me in it and once you're up and running it's easy and actually better than the more stock ones. There is no real transition when changing up and down. Bang, you're in there, but it's not violent, just more efficient. I'm really looking forward to trying it on the track in 2 weeks time. More to come.[]
Also I have used a 6 puk clutch disk and if you haven't tried one of these before you are in for a bit of a shock. Initially a light switch seems to have more compliancy! However even only driving it over 24 hours I'm getting used to it and actually like it. Most people would say that it destroys the 'streetability' of the car but it's 99% time only me in it and once you're up and running it's easy and actually better than the more stock ones. There is no real transition when changing up and down. Bang, you're in there, but it's not violent, just more efficient. I'm really looking forward to trying it on the track in 2 weeks time. More to come.[
]
Diver944
Active member
ORIGINAL: TTM
Why do you even post if you don't have pics of the completed thing to tease us with ... [
Yeah, you big teaser.
I know what you mean about the running in process. My limited knowledge of these matters is that an engine is run in once the rings seal properly to the cylinder wall and all the bearings further down mate properly to the surface they run on. At this point there are no leakages and you will not burn any more oil and the engine is 'run in'. Old cars with big clearances would take quite a while to do this but modern cars are much tighter. Our 'blueprinted' hand built engines are even tighter on the tolerance and we are pretty sure mine was 'run in' after the first 200 mile oil change - it certainly burnt no more oil after that. However we painstakingly broke it in gently after that and I think it's only sensible to follow that sort of process.
Minimum of 1 bar spring eh? That's going to be some monster even on the base boost pressure [
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appletonn
New member
Paul, I read your detailed post on Rennlist last night - superb!
With all of that torque you are cultivating, I can't think of any tyre that would be able to contain it, no matter how wide![]
Cold, greasy, wet tarmac + sudden onset of considerable boost = "slip sliding away..." sings quietly to self....[]
With all of that torque you are cultivating, I can't think of any tyre that would be able to contain it, no matter how wide![
]Cold, greasy, wet tarmac + sudden onset of considerable boost = "slip sliding away..." sings quietly to self....[
]
sawood12
New member
Patrick, sounds like it's coming on. You must be bursting with excitement. I can't imagine how you're going to be able to restrain yourself even for 300 miles!
Earlier in your post you said you gave up on the MID wet sleeve option after your previous failure, i've been browsing on the Speedforce website (I should really get out of the habbit of doing that - my wish list keeps getting longer!) and they do an engine rebuild using wet Darton MID sleeves. Are these the same as what you were using?
Seems quite a good price on Speedforce considering the $-£ exchange rate at $8995. But that is only for the bottom end. You'd need a cylinder head and all the other stuff to get it running - not to mention the cost of shipping it back to the UK.
Also Patrick - can you get those deck plates for 2.5ltr stock blocks?
Earlier in your post you said you gave up on the MID wet sleeve option after your previous failure, i've been browsing on the Speedforce website (I should really get out of the habbit of doing that - my wish list keeps getting longer!) and they do an engine rebuild using wet Darton MID sleeves. Are these the same as what you were using?
Seems quite a good price on Speedforce considering the $-£ exchange rate at $8995. But that is only for the bottom end. You'd need a cylinder head and all the other stuff to get it running - not to mention the cost of shipping it back to the UK.
Also Patrick - can you get those deck plates for 2.5ltr stock blocks?
Diver944
Active member
ORIGINAL: appletonn
With all of that torque you are cultivating, I can't think of any tyre that would be able to contain it, no matter how wide![
Sorry to takeover Patricks thread (but he's asleep over there in Oz anyway [
]).Nick it's actually very easily contained because there isn't a sudden rush of power at all. The power delivery is totally different to a standard 2.5 where nothing happens and then it all arrives in a bang. It is very, very similar to a normally aspirated S2, only it has even more urge from very low down and small throttle openings so you can feel that the power is always there. If you sense anything starting to get out of shape a mere feathering of the throttle will bring it back to normality, it is very, very docile if you need it to be.
When I was doing full power tuning runs on the Conti tyres in cold weather, then yes it would lose traction in an instant, but I don't drive like that normally and I think only those with a death wish would if they had a 400bhp RWD car on the road [
]. It now has 275 wide Kumho road legal track tyres and once warm I found it very difficult to break traction in a straight line.Patricks car wears even wider rubber on 18" rims and he has a very good KW suspension setup so I imagine he will have even more mechanical grip, and I think he will need it as ultimately he is going to have a very, very powerful engine at the front. I believe just getting his car running is the first stage of in a number of developments we are going to see on his car this year [8D]
Well how time flies. I've just been out and knocked off another 100kms so that's 400k's on the clock. Bit of night time driving and doesn't it like the cooler than 30c air temps. (It's been warm today!). So I'm nudging 1 bar from time to time and it feels damn quick! Not long now and I'll have a full report with more pics and some video.
Scott, yet they're exactly the same. If you want to email me I can give you more of an opinion, but I don't want to comment publicly much about them. Yes that deckplate you see in the pics is on a 2.5L motor. Mine has been taken out to 3.0L by Darton 'Dry' sleeves. They are a different proposition.
If I get a chance I'll dyno the car once it's run in and then again when we change out the turbo, headers, exhaust, ems etc. If I had the opportunity I'd like to do each one at a time so as to get a closer quantifiable number or worth of each change. It would be nice to own a dyno.[]
Scott, yet they're exactly the same. If you want to email me I can give you more of an opinion, but I don't want to comment publicly much about them. Yes that deckplate you see in the pics is on a 2.5L motor. Mine has been taken out to 3.0L by Darton 'Dry' sleeves. They are a different proposition.
If I get a chance I'll dyno the car once it's run in and then again when we change out the turbo, headers, exhaust, ems etc. If I had the opportunity I'd like to do each one at a time so as to get a closer quantifiable number or worth of each change. It would be nice to own a dyno.[
]
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