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Looking for an SC

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I've just started what I suspect is going to be the long process of finding an sc, I want a very good, original car (but not concours - as it will be an only vehicle). Prefferably one of the later cars with a higher mileage that's had the engine gearbox etc done at some point. Can anyone give me an idea of what to pay and where to look?
 
Welcome to the Forum, and congrats. on choosing the definitive 911!

From my limited experience, cars of the type you desctibe get advertised between £10K and £12k. For this money you could also start to look at early 3.2 Carreras but I'd say buy the best car you possibly can for your money, not the newest. The ownership experience will be so much more enjoyable.

History does seem to be important with these cars so rememmber that a no history car may look like a bargain, but it will be harder to shift if you want/need to sell it later.

I've had my SC for 5 months and I'm only just beginning to get a handle on what it's condition is really like. If you don't know 911s well I'd say: 1. read as much as you can - Peter Morgan's book on buying SC's seems to be well rated. 2. View lots of cars before making a decision - it's the best way to get an understanding of relative condition and value. 3. When you've found a car get a specialist to inspect it - I gather Peter Morgan does this as well, but there are other specialist independent garages who know Porsches well. Official Porsche Centre mechanics are unlikely to be too familar with cars the age of SCs.

I did a bit of 1. and viewed a few cars. It's been great fun from start to finish but with hindsight, and a bit more patience, I could probably have found a better car.

As to where, try the Club Magazine and 911 & Porsche World - both have large used sales ad sections. Autotrader website will also usually bring up some cars. If you buy from a dealer, be just as cautious about checking the condition as you would if buying privately.

Anyway, good luck and enjoy the search.
 
Thanks for your reply, I'm not particularly keen on the idea of the carerra as I don't want to spend much over 10 and that seems to be starting money for 3.2s not that I've driven one, but I've driven enough SCs to know I want one. I've been doing as much research and looking at as many cars as possible, which is proving to be fun even if it hasn't produced a car.

Another question you or others may be able to help with is to what extent colour and interior impact value. Ideally I'd like a white car with brown tartan interior, obviously I'll be making my decision based on a car's condition but is a white/brown car worth any more or less than a more modern colour scheme?
 
Welcome.

I agree with all of Martin's comments and I also bought a copy of Peter Morgan's book, which I found helpful.

I would also emphasise the importance of seeing and driving as many cars as possible and in fact would suggest that you not buy one until you have seen and driven atleast four.

When I was looking the Targas and Cabriolets were generally cheaper than a hard top and I think that still applies today.

I also recommend the Autotrader website as it always has a decent selection of cars and it's free.

Best of luck.

Trevor

PS I am thinking of selling my cherished 1978 911 SC to buy a Boxster so let me know if you are interested.
 
Good question! I think it's really subjective - some people like colours that relfect modern tastes, others like 'older' colours because they suit the car's classic charactr better - sounds like you're in this bracket. I ended up with red despite having it on my 'no' list to start with and now I love it (despite 80s City trader connotations)!

I have noticed white cars not selling quickly on certain dealers' sites. Whether there's actually a value implication I don't know, but it might affect how easy it is to sell on.

Tartan interior wouldn't be my cup of tea, but variety is the spice as they say!
 
My only advice echoes all that's been said especially make sure there is a lengthy service history with a wad of invoices and get a PPI. I would say that the tartan interior is the least popular but you can always customise to your taste (see below)
 
Thanks for your replies, but I've thought of another question, is there a noticeable difference in the way the 204 and 180hp cars drive (as yet the three I've driven have been the later cars), and does it impact values much?
 
Sean
I brought the second car that I looked at and was quite lucky as the previous owner had done most of the right things to it and had only used it as a weekend toy. He had put a full leather interior into it and a 3.2 front panel on. On the down side I have had to have the drivers side B post repaired make sure you check this out on any 911 of this age as it is a lot of work. I think colours are a personal thing mine is black and was one of the colours that I wanted. Some SC colours are more sellable than others but if you intend keeping the car it is what you like that counts. They can be a pain but when you find an empty road and give it some it is worth it. Baz
 
Phil Raby's ex-911&PW project car is for sale. Good colour, very nice condition when last featured two years ago and fully documented engine and gearbox rebuild, tensioner mods, refurbed 7 and 8 inch Fuchs. VERY nice car. Should be buyable at about the £10K mark. That is good money for this car.

2_39.jpg


911SC 1983, silver, ex- 911 & Porsche World project car 2002, fully documented engine and gearbox rebuild, lots of money spent, refurbished Fuchs, 7" & 8", lots of history, 138,000, MoT and tax, £10,500 ono. Tel: 01875 811339 (Edinburgh). P0604/144
 
I noticed this car for sale but live in London, so far I've only looked at three cars and don't feel I know enough to make a really quick decision on a car which I'd need to to justify flying to scotland.
 
Fair enough Sean, but a 20p phone call is all this one would take initially, the buying process is all about education at the end of the day isn't it - you might for example learn that the guy needs to sell as he is leaving the country or something and get the price down even further over the phone for a quick sale

You might compare something like this, which has had a well-documented mechanical rebuild (in the number one Porsche magazine), against something that you will buy for 8 say and spend minimum 5 on it to do the same jobs and the cost of a flight to Edinburgh looks like money well spent IMO

I flew to France to buy mine, worth every cent, am even more certain of that every time I take it out
 
Alright I'll give it a call, (you're not on comission by any chance?).

I agree with you that the cost of a flight is nothing compared to the cost of buying the wrong car, but at this stage I need to see as many cars as possible so I'm better off spending the weekend looking at 4 or 5 cars around london than one in scotland. It would have been fun picking a car up from france but unfortunately I need a RHD car.
 
no, no commission!

I know people say drive 20 cars and buy the best, but I would never have had time to do that, so I spent a while researching 911's on the 'net, picked the LHD SC as the best way forward (SC is dead right choice there Sean), found one I liked (just happened to be in France) spent anpther 2 weeks researching the car and the seller and waiting for the price to come down, it all worked out, wired him the cash and drove it home.

The beauty of that silver car is that everything is done and all you have to worry about is getting someone decent up that way to PPI it for you, if it's cool then at least you know what the 100% car is going to cost and you can bargain other lesser cars down to where they need to be on price or discount everything else and buy the good one - you can probably get enough info out of the guy not to have to fly to Scotland until you have settled on it as the one you want, if indeed that is the way you eventually go.

Talking to as many SC owners as you can is the best way forward at this stage IMO, personally I would only travel to look at cars being sold by people I could establish some kind of rapport with over the phone. Looking forward to hearing more about your search for the right car Sean.
 
Sean,
A sense of moral duty requires that I put my 2 cents in here, despite risking offending fellow 911 enthusiasts here. First, let me say I've got an early 911 ('72) that I've had for 6 years and have just put a new engine in it and service it myself, so am reasonably experienced with 911s and can speak with some authority. I spent 18 months looking for this car when I lived in California- there are a lot of rusty 911s out there, even in California (half of that state is coastal = sea salt). I'm just an enthusiast who doesn't want to see a fellow 911 enthusiast shafted.

In January of this year, I, like you decided I wanted an SC as a daily driver for £10K. I spent a lot of money travelling to look at cars that were totally misrepresented over the phone, got shafted by owners who sold their cars knowing I had bought train tix to view theirs, inlcuding PCGB members, etc, etc. I did not see a single car that I would waste my money on. At £10k, you will be VERY lucky to find what it sounds like you are looking for. Ignore the crap in 911 & Porsche World on buying these cars for £10k, they are not genuine articles (I have just cancelled my subscription to this magazine because I feel very strongly about this issue).

I then decided to up my budget and looked at some 3.2 Carreras. Still nothing I would put my money into, unless you can live with the constant threat of corrosion or an engine rebuld (you usually can find a car that will need either a body restoration or an engine rebuild, sometimes both). These cars DO rust, despite being galvanised. The only thing I could find were mint cars that are top money and too nice to use every day (ie- you will pay massive depreciation if you do).

Then I upped my budget further and looked at 964's. Still no joy. Take for instance an apparently beautiful car with 60k and FPSH + many bills. I had a PPI done on this car (another £150). It needed, at conservative estimate, £7k's worth of work to sort it out, and the owner was asking £17.5k.

So, I had three PPI's done and didn't buy one of the cars, and remember, I'm quite experienced with these cars, but not an expert. Let me reiterate, at £10K, you could very well get yourself into deep financial trouble with a 911. I honestly, from first hand experience, don't think you can get a 911 at your price that you can use as an only car, without putting a ton of money into it. The cost to sort out any corrosion is going to be massive. If you find corrosion somewhere, I guarantee it will be elsewhere on that car, you just haven't found it yet. And we haven't talked about engine or gearbox rebuilds yet. True, these engines are bulletproof, but in the UK, the salt that is put on the roads corrodes the studs that run from the crankcase, through the cylinders and hold the heads down. If even one of these goes, you're looking at £2.5k.

So, you might be asking. How did I resolve my situation? I took the advice of a local independent whom I spoke to before seeing my first £10K SC. He told me not to do it, but to consider a 968. I told him it had to be a 911, even though I've already got one. Those front engined, water cooled cars are not real Porsches.

Then one day, 6 months into my hunt and totally demoralised by the poor quality of 911s on the market (the best ones get snapped up immediately), I tested a 968. It was a revelation. 240bhp and a six speed gearbox. Not the aural or visceral stimulation of my early 911, but one heck of a car and eminently suitable as a daily driver. A very under-rated car that must not be compared with a 911, but is very quick and handles beautifully. So after looking at 5 968s, I bought mine last Sunday, for not much over £10k and with considerably lower running costs and much higher peace of mind.

Food for thought. I wish you luck in your search, but please, be very careful.

David
 
Far from offending 911 owners that's a great post David and having owned my SC for nearly 20 years now I decided to keep it and maintain and modify as I see fit rather than buy an unknown vehicle, I now know practically every nut and bolt on my car. Buying a used 911 for single car use is a real risk, if your ego can stand it better if you can be happy with a no cost run around and use a 911 as a second car, that way you have the time to sort problems and don't panic everytime a problem comes up because you need the car the next day. I would always get someone as knowledgeable as Peter Morgan to do the final PPI.
 
Interesting posts guys. There's no doubt that an SC as a daily drive is a world away from just about any modern car. It will need bodywork after all-year use, it will probably let you down sooner or later (though try a similar age Ferrari/Alfa/Triumph and you'll feel much better about it), it will be cold in the winter and hot in the summer, if it's a Targa or a Cab it will probably leak however good the seals are, it'll be a sod to park, and your other half won't like it because the clutch is too heavy and it won't engage first gear on the move (this may allow you to drive it more often [:D]).

But, like so many things, it's a compromise. David, you're right that you could probably throw £7.5K at most SCs and still have a list of stuff to do. However, that doesn't mean that on a £10K car you'll have to do that in one go, or even in one year, to kep it useable daily (although you might get unlucky...). It's down to the individual to decide if the benefits are worth the hassle, and the risk. I agree with you 100% about the risk!

So for £10K you can get a 968 (sounds like a good price David, especially with your level of pre-purchase scrutiny to satisfy), or a mint 944 and a good holiday. But there's so much character in the way a 911 looks, drives and feels that I'd take the risk every time (but that'a a statement of fact, not advice Sean!).

Let us know how things are going Sean.
 
Hi David,

Thanks for your post I think it's very very sound advice but I still wont be buying a 968. For as long as I can remember I've wanted a late 70s / early 80s 911 and, with the possible exception of the 3.2s, have no real interest in any of the later cars. It will be my only car but I live in London so it will only be a toy. I also undestand that there is the potential for big bills but then again I like stuffing about with old cars and most people I know are spending at least 5k a year on depreciation alone on their modern cars which is a reasonable contingency fund for the inevitable engine/gearbox/bodywork problems.

I figure the worst that can happen is I buy the wrong car spend a fortune on it, hate it and sell it at a loss, which isn't ideal but at least my girlfriend would never have to hear about old porsches again.

Sean
 
Sean you can't be swayed, Ilike commitment it'll get you through the odd big bill. SCs are not usually rust buckets if you live in North London you can come and have a look at mine and I'll give you some pointers to help you get a good one. If a car has a healthy service history chances are the bottom end is solid, if any top end work needs doing it isn't necessarily hideously expensive. Just read all you can and get the best you can afford as a basis to build on. The early SCs will start to appreciate in value in the next few years so grab a good deal now, you can get lucky. I would say you can get a car for 10k if you are in the right place at the right time.
 
Hi Sean,

As someone who ignored all the advise, brought a car without any inspection, nor with full service history & from a regular dealer (not a specialist) I would like to put forward my opinon.

I only paid £7300 for my car, an '80 SC Targa with 116,000 miles and partial service history (last couple of sevices, a pile of bills for jobs done). I looked at about 7 or 8 cars at this price bracket (some were awful, and a shame to see people let lovely cars get into such a state) Knowing that I wanted the best I could afford, but being realistic, I relalised the car would need some work but as a second car (or car you don't need to rely on) thats all part of the fun of ownership, isnt it?

Since buying my car back in May 2002, I have had to spend about £2500 approx. on various parts (clutch, bearings, oil lines etc - things you would expect on a car of this age). Whilst the car is still not perfect it looks great, it now runs fine fully MOTed, plenty of jobs left to do but I can still use the car and enjoy it.

So if you have £10000 to spend why not look at cheaper cars (seem to be quite a few about) use you head, not your heart when buying and look to spend whatever budget you have left getting the car up to useable condition then do other jobs as nessecary, if you haven't spent a fortune on the car in the first place you won't feel so bad about putting you hand in your pocket. I suppose this approach depends on how long you plan to have the car (I can't see my wife letting me get another porsche in the near future!)

Im sure this will probably start a firery debate but in my opinion service history can be a bit irrellevent, especially with a car like an 80's 911. On a newish car yes, I would agree that its very important, but on an old car it may well have had in excess of 7 or 8 owners (mine has had 12 previous owners!) so the recent history; work carried out, parts bought, and repairs are far more important than whether the first half dozen owners serviced the car regularly.

Good luck with your purchase I hope it doesn't bite you too hard!!!

Cheers Dan.
 
Your car looks really tasty Dan, send me some captions for the gallery. A service history isn't to important Istopped bothering to het mine stamped at 136,000 miles but a stack of invoices is a good guide as to how it's been looked after.
 

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