modern equivalent of the S2 coupe

Alpine · Aug 1, 2007

Have been thinking, if I were to replace the S2 with a modern equivalent, what would it be?

Criteria would be 2 dr coupe with 4 seats, rear wheel drive/front engined (3 litre engine or thereabouts), no more than £35k.

The only one I can think of is the BMW 330 Coupe. Can anyone think of any others?

ukporker · Aug 1, 2007

What about an 8 series BMW - a bit old now but an excellent engine and all the toys included.

Richard

1987 944T
Nautic Metallic

Fen · Aug 1, 2007

The 350z has been suggested before - no idea if it has the seating.

Riverside · Aug 1, 2007

ORIGINAL: Fen

The 350z has been suggested before - no idea if it has the seating.

Three if one doesn't mind sitting on the subwoofer. Closer to a 928S2 in terms of weight & power though.

pauljmcnulty · Aug 1, 2007

The 350z has been suggested before - no idea if it has the seating.

No, it doesn't.

And - ask Nick Fearn for his opinion. Suffice to say his has gone....

Fen · Aug 1, 2007

Absolutely - I didn't say anyone should buy a Datsun.

Closer than a 330Ci though - at least it isn't a saloon in a frock.

pauljmcnulty · Aug 1, 2007

What's wrong with a saloon in a frock? [8|]

Half the problem is the 2-seater layout limiting the market. With modern aerodynamics it should be as easy to fit four seats into any chassis as two. I'd throw the RX8 into the mix if it had a proper engine.....

BMW is a good point, coupe, saloon, cab, cc, roadster or estate the dynamics can stay the same. So...why would anyone buy anything other than the estate? You may never need the load-lugging capacity, but why not have it? As such, I vote for the 330d touring.

Riverside · Aug 1, 2007

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

What's wrong with a saloon in a frock? [8|]

Weight.

wizard · Aug 1, 2007

Not my fancy but ..

Audi TT 3.2 Quattro
Alfa Romeo GT Coupe 3.0 V6
Peugot 406 Coupe 3.0 V6

Fen · Aug 2, 2007

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

BMW is a good point, coupe, saloon, cab, cc, roadster or estate the dynamics can stay the same. So...why would anyone buy anything other than the estate? You may never need the load-lugging capacity, but why not have it? As such, I vote for the 330d touring.

I agree - plus the estate is much cooler and looks better. Unless you want the cab, but now it has a metal top it must have 372 tonnes mounted high above the roll centre so it will have different dynamics I imagine.

The Z4 Coupe should be the BMW equivalent but I don't think they bothered to fit +2 back seats in it.

wizard · Aug 2, 2007

These aren't rear whell drive are they ...[

]
Audi TT 3.2 Quattro
Alfa Romeo GT Coupe 3.0 V6
Peugot 406 Coupe 3.0 V6

zcacogp · Aug 2, 2007

ORIGINAL: wizard

These aren't rear whell drive are they ...[]
Audi TT 3.2 Quattro
Alfa Romeo GT Coupe 3.0 V6
Peugot 406 Coupe 3.0 V6

The audi is - but it's FWD as well. Alfa, I don't know. (I think it's FWD). The peugeot is almost certainly FWD.

And I wouldn't want any of them. (Apart from possibly the Alfa, 'cos it's prettier than Audrey Hepburn with no clothes on.)

I guess that to answer the original question, the nearest is probably the RX8, as has already been mentioned. The fact that it's got a rotary engine doesn't necessarily mean it misses the point - some would claim that a 4-pot 3.0 litre engine is as weird an idea.

Oli.

Fen · Aug 2, 2007

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

The audi is - but it's FWD as well. Alfa, I don't know. (I think it's FWD). The peugeot is almost certainly FWD.

And I wouldn't want any of them. (Apart from possibly the Alfa, 'cos it's prettier than Audrey Hepburn with no clothes on.)

I guess that to answer the original question, the nearest is probably the RX8, as has already been mentioned. The fact that it's got a rotary engine doesn't necessarily mean it misses the point - some would claim that a 4-pot 3.0 litre engine is as weird an idea.

Oli.

You took the words out of my mouth re: the TT's driven wheels. The others are both FWD for sure.

Remember the Kelly le Brock then and now Paul posted? I bet it goed quadruple for Audrey Hepburn...

I still think the 350z is closer than the RX8 though I wouldn't want either. Since Mik went from an S2 to an RX8 (for the missus?) maybe he can compare and contrast for us?

zcacogp · Aug 2, 2007

Fen,

Nope, some things can never fade.

Oli.

Alpine · Aug 2, 2007

Just as I thought then, there is nothing on the market today that quite fits the bill.

The BMW 330 Ci and RX7 are probably nearest but I like neither. The BMW looks too much like the saloon and the RX7 has those silly rear doors.

The others such as Alfa, 406 Coupe and TT are all front drive, probably because they have underpinnings from saloons or hatchbacks, so are not real sports cars.

Neil Haughey · Aug 2, 2007

I have been round this loop sooo many times. Seriously there isn't a modern replacement for the S2 because all the modern equivalents are either based on normal cars or have none of the 944 practicality.

Really it comes down to what you want and what you need it for. For me I need at least 2 cars to replace the S2. My list is like this:

Every day car = Audi A4 3.0Tdi quattro (recently upgraded to 500 Nm same engine as new A5).

Sports and track car = Lotus Exige or a Honda NSX 3.2 6 speeder if I feel the quality of the Lotus is a awful as the Elises I looked at a few years back.

Sports occasional car, garage queen maybe if space allows = pre 74 911

Sadly it is highly likely that I would end up with 0 Porsche's but I would always want an early 911.

When my Saab 9-5 dies I expect Neil's garage to be moving in the above direction.

mik_ok · Aug 2, 2007

As Fen pointed out, we (kinda) replaced the S2 with an RX8.

(The S2 was purchased as drivers car for me and something cool looking for the missus. Wifey decided she wanted something newer...like a TT. Thich wouldn't do me at all. Hence the S2 was replaced as a driving tool by my new Impreza (Wagon)).

TT offered truly abysmal packaging for the sprogs when compared to the 944, so plan was (very neatly thankyou) turned towards an RX8. 350Z was consdered for 3 nanoseconds as it's a 2-seater.

We have the 231bhp version which is pretty much identical to the S2 in performance terms. The engine is very unusual, but it sounds pretty good to my ears as it wails towards 9000rpm ~ not like a washing machine at all, and certainly no worse sounding than the 3liter 4-pot (although I'd rather have a 6 or an 8 than either).

Internal space - RX8 wins hands down. The rear doors are great, and it's a genuine 4-adult seater.

Boot space is big, but the opening is quite narrow. 944 beats it for access.

Not 100% sold on the looks - Wheelbase looks a little too long.

Oil consumtion isn't terrible. Fuel consumption is always hard to compare with other folks as it's dependant on useage, but as a comparison we get approx 23mpg compared to 28mpg in the S2. Good bit thirstier, and defo a weakness.

Traction is poorer than the '44, which makes me suspicious of the 50:50 weight balance claim. In saying that, the handling is very neutral, and steering is meaty, quick and sharp. Very pleasant drive actually, and has a not-as-good-as-spec-suggests, but not too shabby either 300W bose CD as std, and traction control / ESP which stops it scaring the wife. Which was ultimately the demise of the '44 for us.

Fen · Aug 2, 2007

That makes the RX8 sound like a better car than anything I have believed about it to date. It also looks like the only candidate thus far as a 944 replacement.

Of course it has one completely insurmountable flaw that makes it completely unpurchaseable (sorry Mik); it's Japanese.

I'm thinking there is a gap in the market - surely if proper (i.e. German) manufacturers can justify the tooling to make cars with 2 seats such as the TrulyTerrible but they are not a option to people in the target demographic in terms of age/social status with young children (and I appreciate I'm in the minority in not having any of those), then someone needs to make a coupe with middling performance at an affordable price that can be run as a daily driver but isn't a saloon with the back doors welded shut.

Even the Calibra, Probe/Cougar etc. are gone and unreplaced.

beavercraig · Aug 2, 2007

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

What's wrong with a saloon in a frock? [8|]

Half the problem is the 2-seater layout limiting the market. With modern aerodynamics it should be as easy to fit four seats into any chassis as two. I'd throw the RX8 into the mix if it had a proper engine.....

BMW is a good point, coupe, saloon, cab, cc, roadster or estate the dynamics can stay the same. So...why would anyone buy anything other than the estate? You may never need the load-lugging capacity, but why not have it? As such, I vote for the 330d touring.

I have a 330d M Sport Tourer. Other than the engine note its fantastic

Fen · Aug 2, 2007

If it's anything like my 530d tourer then the engine note is blimmin' good* for a diesel - better than a lot of 4 cylinder petrols, dare I say even ones with trasaxles and 2+2 seating from a prestigious German manufacturer.

*Except at idle, but at least you can't hear it inside then.