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My 2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK

I understand you're not happy with the review of a car you own and enjoy Brian, but the 718 2.5 engine does sound different to the GT86 and Imprezas I'm familiar with. Length of exhaust must play a part, with the Japanese cars being front-engined of course. I turned around today walking down my local high street expecting to see an old Beetle but it was in fact a 718 Boxster crawling along. Like or not, the majority of people appear to be unhappy with the sound of the Porsche 718 and they're unlikely to change their opinions. I know I won't be.

I think you'll need to live with the way things are and ignore the views of others that you don't agree with, much as I do when people complain about the steering in my much loved 981 Cayman GTS.

 
Twinfan said:
I turned around today walking down my local high street expecting to see an old Beetle but it was in fact a 718 Boxster crawling along. Like or not, the majority of people appear to be unhappy with the sound of the Porsche 718 and they're unlikely to change their opinions. I know I won't be.

I think you'll need to live with the way things are and ignore the views of others that you don't agree with, much as I do when people complain about the steering in my much loved 981 Cayman GTS.

Hi Brian, I just wanted to say I’ve found your two recent threads chronicling your 718 ownership experiences to be both very interesting and informative. As a fellow 718 owner (base 2.0 Cayman) I too appreciate the characteristics of the turbo engine, although in my case it is mainly used for European road trips and commuting than for track days, but that said in any environment it truly is an exceptional car.

Without wishing to side track your excellent thread into yet another 981 vs 718 debate I must say the only thing that really discourages me from future Porsche ownership is having to be associated with posters such as the above trotting out the same tedious old tired clichés about engine sound that seem to be repeated endlessly by aggrieved 981 owners. It is really unnecessary and with the 718 six possibly on the horizon soon, hopefully cars will be made available to suit the preferences of all Porsche drivers. I do wonder though, whether the demand for a six cylinder 718 will match the amount of noise endlessly made online by these so called ‘purists’ and translate into real sales.

Having test driven a 981 and 718 back in 2016 I purposely chose the F4T as in my opinion it was clearly the better, more improved car. As there are far too many Internet forum debates already covering this subject, most of which are a little less civilised than this one, I will sign off with the observation it is very easy for journalists to repeat tired inaccurate observations, but what is worth reading, for me at least , is some original thought.

Kind regards.

 
Thank you all for your supportive comments on my rant concerning the EVO article. I have since calmed down.......

I fully acknowledge that the sound of the flat-4 turbo, particularly for bystanders at the road/trackside, is widely condemned as a backward step for the Porsche brand. From inside the cabin the sound seems fine to my less than perfect ears, which does make me wonder if artificial acoustics are at play here as Graeme alluded to in his reply.

The EVO article in my opinion was not a fair match play. To pit the mid-engined 718 GTS against a modified 996 set up for drifting was at best unfair, and at worst another opportunity to whack the 718 with yet another baseball bat.

The wonderful roads which I enjoy driving in my locality, have also been experienced many times in my previous flat-6 Caymans, including my most recent Cayman R manual.

The 718 GTS is better than all of them put together for terrain such as this and that is a fact.

Brian.

 
After a while the exhaust note debate gets a tad tiresome. If people do not like the 718 because of it's exhaust note then don't buy one but for heavens sake don't knock the car and people who do. Everyone to their own, buy what you can afford and love but don't knock others for not having the same likes and loves as yourself.

Ray

 
Let me say from the ouset that I have no axe to grind on this subject since I neither own nor have I driven a 718. My only experience of the cars, other than hearing them drive past, is to sit in a base Cayman while its owner revved the engine.

I have to say that I don't understand what the fuss is about. Yes, certainly it sounds very different from the n/a engine but I can't say I find it objectionable - but that is merely my personal opinion and I know from my professional experience in the field of vehicle refinement that subjective assessment of sound and vibration varies significantly from one person to another. Believe me, when I've carried out jury evaluations of different vehicle sounds the scatter can often be very significant, even when the listeners are experienced refinement specialists!

There's no doubt that when compared with other multi-cylinder engines, 4-cylinder engines in general seem to make a less pleasant sound - it's all to do with the complex harmonic mix generated and I'm sure that a psychoacoustician would be able to explain why we perceive that to be the case. As Dave have pointed out, unlike other boxer fours (GT86 and Impreza) the 718 exhaust system has significant packaging constraints, limiting the amount of exhaust tuning which can be done. I'm sure that the Porsche engineers are doing their best within those constraints to produce an interesting sound, but there's a limit to what can be achieved.

I've not seen the EVO article but I have to agree with Brian's comments - cheap, ill-considered journalism and not something I would have expected from a well-respected magazine. No doubt the 718 vs 981 engine debate will rumble on for some time to come and will be re-fueled if the rumoured 718-6 arrives on the scene..!

Jeff

 
When F1 changed it's regulations on racing engines and larger engines were dropped. I for one thought it would be a change for the worse. Several years on and the engine note has now become the norm and my new gripe is the ability to pass other vehicles. Some races are very processional due to the nature/layout of the tracks. We have DRS but that's a bit of a fudge due to cars not being able to pass each other in the natural course of the race.

Things change and hopefully people move with those changes. Those that don't look to other avenues of entertainment. I still support and watch F1 but it does not hold the same charm as it once did. I admire the engineering behind the sport and the ability of the drivers to tame a 200mph plus vehicle.

Ray

 
When F1 changed it's regulations on racing engines and larger engines were dropped. I for one thought it would be a change for the worse. Several years on and the engine note has now become the norm and my new gripe is the ability to pass other vehicles. Some races are very processional due to the nature/layout of the tracks. We have DRS but that's a bit of a fudge due to cars not being able to pass each other in the natural course of the race.

Things change and hopefully people move with those changes. Those that don't look to other avenues of entertainment. I still support and watch F1 but it does not hold the same charm as it once did. I admire the engineering behind the sport and the ability of the drivers to tame a 200mph plus vehicle.

Ray

 
Ray,

I echo your comments, in particular an admiration for the impressive technology involved and the fact that it doesn't hold the same charm it once did for me either. Anyone who can remember hearing a Matra V-12 at full chat will know what I mean..!

It's interesting to note that when the turbo cars were introduced in F1 there were countless complaints about the sound they made; something which I believe has been addressed. Maybe there's hope for Porsche's F-4 turbo engine yet..!

Jeff

 
Motorhead said:
Ray,

I echo your comments, in particular an admiration for the impressive technology involved and the fact that it doesn't hold the same charm it once did for me either. Anyone who can remember hearing a Matra V-12 at full chat will know what I mean..!

It's interesting to note that when the turbo cars were introduced in F1 there were countless complaints about the sound they made; something which I believe has been addressed. Maybe there's hope for Porsche's F-4 turbo engine yet..!

Jeff

I recall being at Brands when F1 alternated with Silverstone. Two particular memories:

Piquet in the Brabham coming down from Druids followed by a swarm of mosquitoes which of course were particulates from the exhaust when the cars were running FULL boost, and

the noise of Warwick and Cheever's Renault Turbo cars at full pelt along the straight between Surtees and Hawthorns - the tone was very deep and one needed ear protectors to avoid real pain from their noise.

The Matra V12 is fitted to the Matra MS670C one of which was dicing with a McLaren M8 at the Silverstone Classic last year. V12 versus a Big Block V8, a real contrast in sounds but I really appreciate the theatre, drama and violence of the race much more than the sound. Similarly the LMP1 Hybrids made far less noise than the non-Hybrids but were far more impressive particularly coming out of Luffield and passing them before Woodcote.

 
Ralph,

Hands up, the 718 Cayman GTS cannot possibly compete aurally with a Matra V12!

I was fortunate enough to attend the 1977 F1 GP at Zandvoort when Jaques Lafitte was driving the Matra V12. The sound on full-cry simply out-classed every other F1 car of the period, including the Ferrari V12.

The 718 engine installation as Jeff correctly points out, has significant engine bay space limitations which combined with the mid-engine location, severely constrains the engineering possibilities regarding tuning the exhaust note. Subaru for example have much more space in their front-engine platform to tune and develop the exhaust system sound and performance.

Having been a regular spectator at the Knockhill rounds of the BTCC touring car events, the Subarus sound absolutely fabulous. If only Porsche could develop the same aural results from their flat-4 turbo, then much of the criticism of the marque would evaporate leaving only the 4 cylinder turbo configuration as the stumbling block for some.

I enjoy my cars for the dynamic driving experience, not the sound from the pipes or the piston count.

Brian

 
My recollection of the sound of the Matra V12 was at Brands (1968?) when it was installed in the Matra MS11. I was attending the practice day with a few fellow students and we could hear the car on-track miles from the circuit!

Look at those pipes..!

Jeff

 
But for trackdays quieter is becoming more and more important.

And to be fair to P ... for economy, emissions, tune-ability and noise ... Turbo with Ev torque boost could offer the best of all worlds.

How would you like to choose the torque curve you want ?

P.S. 'Love the pipes !!

 
Porsche Driving Grounded

Following much personal anguish and trepidation, I have decided to post the following experience which I have been forced to endure recently, as a direct result of the DVLA Medical Service's cumbersome, and apparently glacial approach to the administration of driver's licence renewals.

As this is a public forum I shall keep the specifics factual and brief. Those members who follow my 718 Cayman posts and have previously read the "Reality Check" article published in Porsche Post, will already know that in 2015 I was diagnosed with a localised form of Motor Neurone Disease known as monomelic Amytrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS). The symptoms are currently only affecting the grip and dexterity of the fingers of my right hand. Some muscle wasting is also evident in my lower arm and hand, but as the full range of movement of my right arm and hand are otherwise normal, and other limbs are unaffected, the condition does not impinge upon my ability to drive both a manual and PDK car. Those members who know me through chatting at various PCGB events will know that my ALS condition is a very mild one, and thankfully progressing very slowly.

Following early consultations in January 2019 with the consultant neurologist and my GP, written reports from both medical officers were submitted along with the DVLA documents for the renewal of my 3 year full driver's licence. I was bound by law to declare my MND condition to DVLA following confirmed diagnosis. The papers were posted via Royal Mail Next Day Service which were delivered to DVLA Medical Service, Swansea, on 1st February 2019. The Royal mail tracking confirmed delivery. So far so good. Or so I thought.

As the weeks and months went by nothing was forthcoming from DVLA regarding my licence renewal application. No letter acknowledging receipt, email, or SMS message was received. When it came to within 4 weeks of the expiry of my current driver's licence my concern was rising and became more acute by the day. Had any correspondence been mis-directed through the wrong letterbox, I wondered. I decided to phone DVLA to chase up my application and check whether they had posted any communications to my address. Their response was the typical "your case is currently being processed, and we shall be in touch in due course", and the voice confirmed that nothing had been posted from DVLA. I left it for a further week and phoned DVLA a second time. A similar response was all I got. When it came down to the final week before the expiry of my licence, panic was beginning to set in. I posted a further letter to DVLA, again by Special Delivery, and chased up my ongoing renewal application on the official DVLA Medical Service website. A response within 14 days was promised!

Now the real horror story begins. The law states that you may still drive after your driver's licence has expired, provided DVLA are currently investigating your case. This is known as the Section 88 rule, as stipulated by the Road Traffic Act 1988. As the week of the expiry date dawned, I became ever more anxious. I reported my circumstances to the local police station, who were extremely helpful and sympathetic. However the law is the law, and if I were required to produce my expired driver's licence to a police officer for any reason, I would be in serious trouble. I was advised to carry copies of the supporting DVLA documentation with me in the car at all times following the expiry date. The police officer also suggested I contact my car insurance urgently to advise them of my Section 88 status.

I made a third phone call to DVLA, this time I very firmly expressed my displeasure at having fallen into the Section 88 rule entirely due to DVLA taking 3 months to process my renewal application. This time around, an apology for the long delay was expressed and a promise was given to escalate my renewal application as high priority. An email and text message was subsequently received confirming this.

My next task was informing my insurance broker Marsh, who provide insurance for both my cars, of the default Section 88 status resulting entirely from the DVLA administration lapse. To my absolute horror, I was informed that the underwriting insurer Aviva, required written current evidence of my fitness to drive from both my neurologist and GP before they would provide cover under Section 88. When I explained I had copies available from both medical officers dated January 2019, Aviva would not accept these as they were 4 months out of date! Frantic phone calls to medical centres followed, only to be informed that both medical officers were off on leave for Easter. Flaming Nora! It would be next week before they could be contacted. Pleading in desperation to my contact at Marsh, I was subsequently given immediate full insurance cover under Section 88 for the Abarth only, ironically the manual car. My 718 Cayman GTS however was effectively grounded.

I decided to disclose this sorry tale as a warning to others who may have a declared medical condition with DVLA, and believe me it is a long list of conditions and you don't need to be over 70 to fall into this category. Check the website for yourself. Anyone falling under the Section 88 rule is treated with the utmost suspicion by insurers. In their eyes, Section 88 is for borderline cases where DVLA are debating whether or not to grant a driver's licence. I fell under this net by default due entirely to DVLA's maladministration. I am not out of the woods yet, as I still have to procure and submit current medical reports for Aviva to reinstate my Porsche insurance cover.

I shall report the next instalment of this sorry saga after the Easter holiday.

Happy Easter all.

Brian







 
Sorry to hear of your dvla admin problems Brian and the resulting insurance issues maybe if you have on board video of one of your track days you should send it to aviva that should expell any doubts about your competency under section 88 !

 
Absolute bummer Brian. It would stop us all worrying about the sound of our cars if we could not drive the things. (Oh, except perhaps for the show and polish enthusiasts and the investors/flippers). We all love our cars for a different mix of reasons but we must all share your frustration and concerns when 3rd party administration fails so spectacularly and prevents us doing what we enjoy.

i hope that you get some good news very soon.

 
jimbo761 said:
Without wishing to side track your excellent thread into yet another 981 vs 718 debate I must say the only thing that really discourages me from future Porsche ownership is having to be associated with posters such as the above trotting out the same tedious old tired clichés about engine sound that seem to be repeated endlessly by aggrieved 981 owners.

And I too am tired of 718 owners thinking their opinion is the only valid and correct one - others are always available, on all topics! The 981-718 road is a two-way street [:D]

Back on topic, I hope the DVLA issue is resolved quickly for you Brian - it's no fun not being able to drive your pride and joy.

 
I can only concur with other's comments Brian. What a nightmare..!

Of course the annoying thing is that you'll need to go through the same procedure in 3-years time - wonderful! - but at least you'll have the benefit of experience. Maybe you should start applying to the DVLA now just in case??

Jeff

 
Really sorry to hear the trouble your having Brian I can only guess the frustration your feeling. You planned for all possible events and still red tape puts a stop to your enjoyment. Having to go through the process again I only hope is expedited by DVLA

Diane

 

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