No more new 981 orders can be taken !

[MrDemon]

You would not have issues with the steering , as it works and for many will feel ok

you either like the feel though or you don't, I cannot stand it. As I said the 981 range will go down as the worse feeling cars with gen 1 EPS

the GT models and the 718 move the game on (so they say with the 718) but the GT4 is far far better than any other 991,981 I have driven but still not amazing.

A 981 steering is enough to put me off an other wise great car. whenmy Audi or even my Ford has better feel it puts one off a £60k Porker :-(

 

[flat6]

I doubt that driving a [VAG] 4 cylinder engined Macan is any indication of what the 718 power train will be like. Just like driving an in-line 6 cylinder from another manufacturer wouldn't give any indication of the Porsche's signature flat 6.

Will be interesting to see how long it takes for the number of cylinders to be forgotten if it's a good car (and generally Porsche don't make bad cars). It's like when the GT3 was introduced as PDK only. Some said they would never buy a GT3, but they still found plenty of buyers who forgave the sacrilege and discovered a very good car. Said car has been in high demand and no doubt the next GT3 will lose something else from the past but do well again in some other forward looking way.

I expect Porsche has thought long and hard about the effect of moving to a blown 4 cylinder on their fan base and will have packed the car and power train with significant improvements to soften the blow and to entice the doubtful to trade up and be glad they did.

 

[Dylan1]

If the power delivery of the 718 is along similar lines to the gen 2 991 then it will be a big improvement imho

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

If this is the way Porsche are going with 4 pots lets hope they make some special versions ie

Spyders Caymans GT models you get the idea to be more tempting for people who have 6 pots and don't fancy the idea of change.

 

[flat6]

They might, or they may use the special versions to promote the new tech because it says "if it's good for those it must be good for all", like the GT3 being PDK only for example. If for example Porsche drops the manual across the whole 911 range it's less likely to cause a fuss now.

There's also the issue of extending the production of what will be a defunct engine on low volume specials. May be fine at first whilst there's a transition in production of engine types and spares being held etc but difficult over time. They might also have not designed the 718 to easily take the old engine IF is has in some way some fundamental elements dedicated to accommodating the 4 cylinder turbo. [Yes the new 991 engines are 6 cylinder but they are twin turbo which would also not be a straight swap].

 

[Motorhead]

Whatever the pros and cons of the flat-4 pot turbos, we have to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future on all Caymans and Boxsters - including forthcoming GT4 and Spyder variants, assuming Porsche's continuance with these money-spinners.

Like the introduction of electrically assisted steering on the 981 there'll be the usual detractors for a while but no-one's going to tell me that it will impact future sales significantly. It's the total package which is important and the number of true enthusiasts posting here and elsewhere represent a very small proportion of those purchasing these cars and we can't be arrogant enough to think that our views will carry much weight, although I hope that Porsche does take note of our opinions.

On the technical side, it seems that one of the decisions to use 4-cylinder engines in the mid-engined cars was for packaging reasons: the 6-cylinder engine won't fit in the engine bay. Also, instead of using an air-to-air intercooler Porsche has chosen to use an air-to-coolant charge cooler, once again for packaging reasons. Although the base 2.0L car has a conventional turbo the 2.5L S turbo uses a variable inlet guide vane arrangement like that used in the 991 Turbo, an expensive and rather complex arrangement designed to minimise turbo lag, where other manufactures (BMW, Subaru..) have adopted the cheaper twin scroll turbo approach to achieve the same thing.

Interestingly CAR’s Georg Kacher, who joined Porsche’s winter testing team in Canada’s Northern Territories for a ride in a 718 Boxster prototype, noted that:

From the passenger seat, and on the banana-skin slippery icy roads of Yellowknife, it was difficult to feel a great difference in outright poke between the two engines. But… subjectively, the smaller 2.0-litre engine actually feels fractionally more agile and responsive, while the 500cc-bigger unit didn’t feel like it answered the throttle pedal quite so eagerly. After a smidge of initial turbo lag, the oomph builds more rapidly and climbs to a taller peak. Slow it ain’t.

The 2.5’s all baritone growl at higher revs, but our ears put the 2.0 ahead on soundtrack – it’s the sharper, more aggressive sounding of the pair, especially when fitted with the optional sports exhaust system.

We'll have to wait and see what the journos have to say when the cars are released officially at the Geneva Show next month.

One final point. Although the 981 chassis won't take a 6-pot engine, there's no reason to think that the next generation Cayman isn't being engineered to accept that option. A flat-6 turbo GT4 could be on the cards..!

Jeff

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

How about twin turbos for specials.

We know how easy it is to get more power from turbo cars a simple remap.

 

[ralphmusic]

How about twin turbos for specials.

We know how easy it is to get more power from turbo cars a simple remap.

Particularly now the 981 ECU has been cracked

 

[Motorhead]

Twin turbos on a 4-cylinder engine Cliff? Highly unlikely - much too expensive and complex to implement and no advantages over a single twin-scroll or VIGV turbo in my opinion.

As you say, there's plenty of scope for tuning a turbo engine via an ECU remap, although the tuners will be back to square one with the 718 DME Ralph.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Is it a different DME?

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

I think for future Spyders & GT4s they will have to come up with a plan rather then just a mid remap of 10 15 bhp like they often do.

Don't think that would cut it on special models this time if they choose to use 4 pots in such models.

Trouble is everything for the future is kept close to the chest.

Time will tell.

 

[MrDemon]

annoying when they all have a 5 year plan of cars to be released.

the Hype is selling the cars at full RRP though so they are getting the marketing right even though they may have lost a few customers

 

[Motorhead]

Ralph,

I'd expect the 981 (6-cylinder n/a) and 718 (4-cylinder turbo) DMEs to be very different. The latter has to manage the turbo wastegate and will have very different fueling, intake management and camshaft timing and lift regimes. However, having cracked the 981 DME coding you'd have to say that the tuners have a head start in doing the same for the 718 DME.

Cliff,

As you'll appreciate, it's much easier to tune a turbo engine than a normally aspirated engine - just look at the range of power outputs available from the VAG I-4 2.0L engine. Porsche won't have a problem adding 40+bhp to the output of the 2.5L flat-4 turbo if they want to separate the GT4 from it's lesser siblings.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Ralph,

I'd expect the 918 (6-cylinder n/a) and 718 (4-cylinder turbo) DMEs to be very different. The latter has to manage the turbo wastegate and will have very different fueling, intake management and camshaft timing and lift regimes. However, having cracked the 981 DME coding you'd have to say that the tuners have a head start in doing the same for the 718 DME.

Jeff,

991.1 turbos have been tuned via PIWIS factory level equipment and Cobb Accessport so unless new generation encryption I don't see too many barriers.

Ralph

 

[Motorhead]

On that basis, I'm sure you're right Ralph. Let's hope so anyway.

Jeff

 

[MrDemon]

for A to B speed the new mk3 TTRS will be hard to beat and a far better engine than the 4 pot.

think it might even have the magic 400BHP figure on launch also, unless they save that for the Plus model 2 years later.

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

As said Jeff we all know how easy to tune Turbo engine but the question is will they go the whole hog or just mild tweaks as per normal.

 

[ralphmusic]

It doesn't really sound very nice..

[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2iVVt1kG2w[/link]

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

Might need a nice special after market exhaust.

Most Porsche's don't sound like we think or would like them to sound.

Even my GT3 Mk 1 never had the exhaust note until it had a custom built one off Janspeed then it sounds awsome no good for track but evocative for road.

Sure the engine had the Mezenger note but not carried through to the exhaust note.

Sometimes they need a little help from good aftermarket stuff.

 

[Motorhead]

Cliff, I agree with your comment re exhaust sound.

Actually, they often sound better inside the car than outside. And these days manufacturers are working very hard on "enhancing" the sound inside the car by playing tracked and balanced harmonics through the sound system - some more successfully (Jaguar?) than others (BMW?). A fact of life I'm afraid with the trend towards small capacity turbo engines and customer demand for more tuneful engine notes. Also, don't forget that intake sound is also important; it's not only the exhaust note.

Jeff