Porsche Goodwill - Fall Out Starting?

[JCB..]

I had a call from a chap last night.

He had paid a deposit on a 1998 2.5 and was due to collect the car today. In the meantime he had learnt of the 'slipped sleeve' issue that has affected a small number of 2.5 cars and that was the reason for his call.

I confirmed that the problem did indeed exist and that to date the best offer from Porsche known to me had been £1000 towards the cost of a new engine.

It saddens me to have to tell you that he informed me that he would rather lose his deposit than buy it and risk a dead engine - however small the risk.

It saddens me even further that someone who has purchased a Porsche, from an Official Porsche Centre, with a full Porsche service history should, despite the fact that "Every case will be judged on its merit", be offered such a sum as "goodwill".

JCB..

 

[daro911]

It saddens me to have to tell you that he informed me that he would rather lose his deposit than buy it and risk a dead engine
JCB
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[]Dirty washing in public springs to mind!!

 

[NicD]

Guys,

this makes NO sense to me!

If he is buying from an OPC, he can take out the extended warranty for £700pa to cover most everything including Euro emergency cover.

This makes good sense to me, these cars are not cheap to repair, even if they are getting that way to buy.

John, I hope you appraised him of this.

 

[GreigM]

Yes, but Nic, £700 per year is an awful lot, it's like doubly insuring the car, against faults which shouldn't happen in a car of this price.

 

[JCB..]

Guys,

this makes NO sense to me!

If he is buying from an OPC, he can take out the extended warranty for £700pa to cover most everything including Euro emergency cover.

This makes good sense to me, these cars are not cheap to repair, even if they are getting that way to buy.

John, I hope you appraised him of this.

Nic

He is buying private and is on a budget - why else would he be buying a '98 2.5!

I keep saying this but not everyone can afford to throw away £700 a year on extra insurance on a car that is not supposed to break!

JCB..

 

[JCB..]

Dirty washing in public springs to mind!!

Robert

Not sure what you mean by this?

JCB..

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: JCB..

Dirty washing in public springs to mind!!

Robert

Not sure what you mean by this?

JCB..

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John

I merely meant that the chap concerned has been put off buying the best sports car in the world, because of the things he has read from the affected minority of owners. If I had let the short comings of the new MINI influence me I would never have ended up owning 2 examples both of which have proved to be bullet proof and not plagued with any inherent faults as aired on the relative website.

Robert

 

[JCB..]

Robert

Both myself and the chap concerned agreed that it was a very small number of cars but he was not prepared to accept the risk.

BMW Mini issues are unlikely to require selling your body for scientific experiments unlike a Boxster engine.

JCB..

 

[Guest]

JCB,

What's wrong with 98 2.5 Boxster's ?????????????????

Or are we below you newer owners ?????????????




Rob

 

[Mark_Bennett]

I understand a small number of very early 2.5 boxsters had cylinder liners (sleeves) that could "slip", consequenty wrecking the engine. (Slipped sleeves).

Very few cars were affected, and it normally happened at a fairly low milage. Therefore most cars should have either proved they have no problem, or been replaced by now. Porsche quickly changed the production method or design. It seems to have worked.

There is always the possibility of a very low milage example storing the problem up though.[&:]

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: daro911

ORIGINAL: JCB..


I merely meant that the chap concerned has been put off buying the best sports car in the world, because of the things he has read from the affected minority of owners. If I had let the short comings of the new MINI influence me I would never have ended up owning 2 examples both of which have proved to be bullet proof and not plagued with any inherent faults as aired on the relative website.

Robert

When YOU are the affected owner who bought the car in good faith, for its bullet proof reliablity and your car has a low mileage then when it breaks down in a big way YOU will be annoyed. For all those who have not had to deal with PGB customer services then i suggest you try it first then tell us about "the best sports car in the world"

By their own admission PGB will ONLY contribute 250quid max towards "good will" if your car is above 5years. This is after examining "every case under its own merits"

This goes back to the whole issue of component failures due to poor design or latent defects. A good manufacture usually fixes these problems with little inconvience to their customers (like BMW in the case of the MINI / M3). The maker of the "best sports car in the world" would, you would hope, have the best customer service. However in the case of PGB this is sadly NOT true.

 

[JCB..]

Therefore most cars should have either proved they have no problem, or been replaced by now.

I have had three people reporting failed 2.5 engines this year alone so they are still out there!

Needless to say Porsche Cars UK have not been interested.

JCB..

 

[JCB..]

What's wrong with 98 2.5 Boxster's ?????????????????

Rob

The slipped sleeve - porous block issue has been well publicised on various forums since it first became known back in early 1999. A batch of engines with faulty blocks were manufactured and fitted to cars in 1998. I would have thought that Porsche knows exactly which cars were effected but I don't understand why they never recalled them.

As usual our American cousins have had their engines replaced with no quibbles.

Or are we below you newer owners ?????????????

A high mileage MY2000 can hardly be called new.

FYI on the social pecking order scale there are not that many people who exist at a lower level in the gutter than I do.

JCB..

(Working class and proud of it)

 

[Guest]

Rob

I find the following detail of help in understanding this issue - NB - YOU WILL NEED CUT AND PASTE ALL THE ADDRESS

http://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={F3EA752A-E838-43E5-A43D-BB4F445F5A8F}

Hope it helps.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Thanks Nigel. A very useful link indeed!
(Can we send a copy to Mr Editor - I don't think changing oil would help here...[&:])

John,

3 this year? I'm horrified! Any idea of the milage done in these cases?

 

[Guest]

As usual our American cousins have had their engines replaced with no quibbles.

Could this be because Americans are much more litigeous than us ?
Normally seen as a bad thing, but if your lawyer screams and shouts loud enough......

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: John Bellringer

As usual our American cousins have had their engines replaced with no quibbles.

Could this be because Americans are much more litigeous than us ?
Normally seen as a bad thing, but if your lawyer screams and shouts loud enough......

John

Not always the case - take a look at this from a PCA member

"Porsche Cars North America is, on it's own, taking the initiative to "do the right thing" and replace engines under warranty. Some even after warranty. It is not something others outside PCNA have caused through influence, suggestion or legislation. While it is a shame to see such otherwise brilliant cars have such mighty defects, it is nonetheless an outstanding example of a company seeking to make things right. Quite refreshing in this day & age. They are not communists, of course, and happily so, their goal is to continue to build and expand the brand and therefore their sales. But they value the customer and customer satisfaction in the equation. It is ultimately a simple example of free markets at work. I know nothing about the market in Great Britain, so I cannot begin to speculate what might be needed over there, except perhaps to see if PCNA's example can simply be followed by Porsche in GB. If they are not, I think we can conclude they are lacking sufficient competition for market share, or are being run by people whose business model remains a mystery."

 

[Grant]

Have to say (to date!!) I have found Porsche goodwill to be ok (he says tempting fate) but from what you say John it doesn't sound fair to those affected, a new engine is a major expense ! I suppose the issue is, did the engine fail because of the manufacturing fault or because of problems along the way (over-revving/lack of oil/thrashing when cold /overheating/etc) how do you know ?!
Ironically for my part I wouldn't consider buying a second hand Porsche without an OPC check, at least you are getting them to rubber stamp the cars condition before ownership, they would look rather silly if they gave you glowing report & the engine blew up the next week!! The next best thing to paying out for the full £800 insurance.

 

[tim court]

he can take out the extended warranty for £700pa to cover most everything

Nic,

I bought my C4 (50kmiles) privately a couple of years ago following an inspection carried out by OPC Reading. Some things identified by the inspection were rectified under the warranty.

The items listed here were deemed to be "not covered" and the seller rectified them all as part of the deal between us.

Sunvisor clips broken £124.41
Rear Main Seal £563.50 (never even heard of the dreaded RMS then had I!!!)
NSF lower arm ball joint £311.35
Exhaust bracket broken and blowing £131.34
Front diff oil leak £123.49
Clean and rewax engine where corroded £41.76

Add the vatman's share and it came to a healthy £1522.64.

Despite protests at the time they refused to budge - Not much of an extended warranty was it???

Good luck with the RMS issue Nic. You certainly don't deserve the mud slung your way recently in the RMS thread.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Grant

Ironically for my part I wouldn't consider buying a second hand Porsche without an OPC check, at least you are getting them to rubber stamp the cars condition before ownership, they would look rather silly if they gave you glowing report & the engine blew up the next week!! The next best thing to paying out for the full £800 insurance.

Grant

This may come as surprise to some but the OPC check does NOT cover the likes of the internals of the engine such as cylinder casing, oil separator or other issues with these engines. Also a "rubber stamp" from the OPC does not get you a better deal from customer service if your car is bought outside the OPC network.

The issues here are manufacturing defects not wear and tear items!