Porsche Goodwill - Fall Out Starting?

[JCB..]

Ironically for my part I wouldn't consider buying a second hand Porsche without an OPC check, at least you are getting them to rubber stamp the cars condition before ownership, they would look rather silly if they gave you glowing report & the engine blew up the next week!! The next best thing to paying out for the full £800 insurance.

One of the very broken 2.5's I have been informed of this year was actually serviced at the OPC it was purchased from 3 weeks before it expired!

This still did not pass the "judged on it's individual merit" test.

JCB..

 

[John H]

I am a 968 owner, very much on a budget, and I had been considering the move to a Boxster.

Listen up Mr Porsche ... I won't be buying a Boxster until this mess is cleared up honourably, and I'll bet I'm not the only one. IMHO Porsche GB stand to lose a lot of potenial customers by being so tight fisted. But then this is what you get when accountants not enthusiasts take over the reins. []

John H (968 list moderator)

 

[Guest]

Dealing with PGB "Customer Assistance Centre" is like dealing with the mob, you get misrepresentation, misdirection, out right lies and eventually silence.
I recently managed to get a copy of the crib sheet used by PGB to "break the news to their customers" Here are a few choice words such as

"we appriciate the distress this has caused you"
"you have not prtected your investment by extending your warranty"
"our offer is over and above what we norammly give"
"we have no oligation to you after 5 years"
"offer is fair and reasonable in this instance"
"i hope this good will gesture goes some way to restoring your faith in the Porsche and demonstrates our commitment to you as a valued customer"

It goes on....... and on.... and on

To me "individual basis" means just that, not a collection of quotes from a crib sheet

 

[Grant]

ORIGINAL: n4das
Grant
This may come as surprise to some but the OPC check does NOT cover the likes of the internals of the engine such as cylinder casing, oil separator or other issues with these engines. Also a "rubber stamp" from the OPC does not get you a better deal from customer service if your car is bought outside the OPC network.
The issues here are manufacturing defects not wear and tear items!

Hi N4das I am well aware that you Porsche don't take the engine apart to examine the internals!!! But a full test would generally throw up most problems with the car (look at Tims post!!) including indicator's of engine problems. I stand by my point that a full check is a must do for any prospective buyer.

Having said this as I said in my earlier post, from what John has said it doesn't sound as though the engine failures have been treated fairl, and Porsche clearly already have a problem with the RMS issue.
Have any of them looked into paying the AA (RAC) for an independant report to indicate if they thought it was wear & tear or manufacturing fault, with the big cost of a new engine I would think of going down that route.

 

[Guest]

Grant

Sorry if i sound rude but tell me how the 87 point check carried out by the OPC's shows up a manufacturing fault in the cylinder lining. Then tell me what you think that PGB wil do when your engine actually goes due to this problem.
Am i just missing something or is your OPC GOD??

If you look at Tims post you will notice that the items mentioned come under "wear and tear" NOT component failures that cause the total engine loss! You essentially buy the car thinking its going to last with a "rubber stamp" from the OPC but what you dont appriciate is that it will fail on you needing a £9K engine a few weeks down the line!!

As for independant inspections many cases have shown up to be manufacturing faults.

 

[Black80XSA]

ORIGINAL: JCB..


I have had three people reporting failed 2.5 engines this year alone so they are still out there!

JCB..

They certainly are John - called at Ninemeister in Warrington last week (Porsche specialist) - they had three 2.5 blocks in the corner of the workshop, all with slipped liners. One only had 30k miles on it - OPC wanted £14k to replace supposedly.

 

[tim court]

If you look at Tims post you will notice that the items mentioned come under "wear and tear" NOT component failures

Errrr.... if I was an American wouldn't the RMS have been replaced free of charge???

Was I lied to??? Did they know of a problem with RMS's???

 

[38F3E1]

Tim.

OPCs are well aware of the RMS issue and have been for a long time. It is also something that would be picked up on an inspection once it has failed due to the dripping oil.

In the UK RMS replacement has not been covered by warranty which is where the problems come from as the OPC has to pick up the cost when giving you a goodwill contribution unless it negotiates a contribution from Porsche AG (and all the hassle that incurrs for the OPC).

Ian.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: tim court

If you look at Tims post you will notice that the items mentioned come under "wear and tear" NOT component failures

Errrr.... if I was an American wouldn't the RMS have been replaced free of charge???

Was I lied to??? Did they know of a problem with RMS's???

Sorry tim should have said "most" of the items listed....[]
I think that customer services do "lie" to us when it comes to issues like these. There is plenty of misdirection and "well we did not know that"

 

[tim court]

Yeah, I feel cheated that when I bought the car I was completely oblivious to 996/Boxster quality issues. Had I known about them I would have been able to argue from a position of knowledge that the failed RMS was not simply down to wear and tear.

Had I been an American buyer the US dealer would have whipped out his alignment tool and either replaced the seal or replaced the engine (so we are led to believe).

As it was here in the UK the poor guy I bought the car from coughed up £662.00!!! - and I went away grinning thinking I had the perfect car and the perfect deal....

 

[NicD]

In the UK RMS replacement has not been covered by warranty which is where the problems come from as the OPC has to pick up the cost when giving you a goodwill contribution unless it negotiates a contribution from Porsche AG (and all the hassle that incurrs for the OPC).

Ian,

do you mean RMS did not used to be covered by the previous extended warranty? (eg after 2 years)

It certainly was and is covered by the standard 2 year warranty

 

[38F3E1]

Yes extended warranty. I wasn't clear enough. Is it true that it is now covered by the extended warranty?

 

[JCB..]

Yes extended warranty. I wasn't clear enough. Is it true that it is now covered by the extended warranty?

It is indeed but you are in effect paying for it unless of course it fails more than once per annum.

JCB..

 

[Mark_Bennett]

The repair should be guaranteed for a year, so the extended warranty has to be for peace of mind for the WHOLE car - not just the RMS[]

 

[GreigM]

Surely if it fails more than once per annum, the first repair has some sort of warranty with it, therefore the second repair should be free? Or is there no warranty with OPC work?

 

[BoxsterBox]

I stand to be corrected as I'm a bit rusty on this subject now. I ordered a Boxster from Rivervale near Brighton in Dec 96 with a factory collection in mid July 98 (day after the World Cup Final). I was given to understand that the engine block supplier had been supplying blocks from 2 machines and that the failure rate (due to porosity of the casting) from one of the m/c's exceeded the PAG limits and therefore this m/c was taken out of production and hence the delay of 3 months or so in my car. I thought that the slipped sleeve issue was another problem. From 97-99 I followed Porsche Pete's Boxster Board and recall that when the engines failed in the US they swapped the whole unit for a new one.

My Boxster has only 13,500 miles on her and last year after the service at Lindbrook I said I was considering selling the car. They promptly drove my car back into the workshop and 30 mins later they said they were happy to buy it. No doubt they removed the engine undertray and checked the RMS etc. A free OPC inspection for nothing! Made up for the wheel bearing failure £250 bill!

JCB and Nic - good to see you at Brands.

Simon Boxall (Offical PCGB Blenheim Palace Organiser!)

Boxster 98 AS/MB/MB M030 (RS - no centre console, A/C etc.)

 

[JCB..]

I was given to understand that the engine block supplier had been supplying blocks from 2 machines and that the failure rate (due to porosity of the casting) from one of the m/c's exceeded the PAG limits and therefore this m/c was taken out of production and hence the delay of 3 months or so in my car. I thought that the slipped sleeve issue was another problem. From 97-99 I followed Porsche Pete's Boxster Board and recall that when the engines failed in the US they swapped the whole unit for a new one.

Simon

The slipped sleeve is due to the casting porosity.

JCB..

 

[JCB..]

Surely if it fails more than once per annum, the first repair has some sort of warranty with it, therefore the second repair should be free? Or is there no warranty with OPC work?

If it goes twice in a year under extended warranty you are in effect getting 2 for 1!

Jane always manages to do it with Heinz Baked Beans!

(Just trying to lift the mood a little)[&:]

(Or losing the plot)[]

 

[Guest]

[][][][][]

like it JCB......

I am not sure what happens if the RMS fails again in 1 year??? The problem in the case of Bernie, for example is if the gearbox fails the you really are in trouble.

I got an idea for PGB why not factor in the "extended warranty" that they love so much into the price of the new car for 10years? They will be able to get a good discount on an yearly basis, charge, say£5,000 primium on the price (12.5%) then... hey presto the car is covered what ever happens [][]

I am sure that they will find some other reason like the "wrong kind of warranty"to get out of paying for design flaws[:-]

 

[Guest]

For all those non belivers that PGB has a crib sheet then check out the following on the 996 forum

quote:

ORIGINAL: beershark

Porsche Cars GB came up with plenty of excuses not to make a contribution such as:

Should have bought it from a main dealer - I tried and was registered with East London and viewed several cars but couldnt come up with the right one for me.

Should have bought a warranty - I did (non Porsche but not covered)

Should have had the car check out by OPC post purchase - I did by East London just after I bought it a couple of months ago.